BaL 9.12.17 - Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius

[ardcarp]

What a strange BAL, with nothing to be heard from lengthy important chunks of the score - Praise to the Holiest, Take Me Away etc. over 30 minutes, a third of the piece, ignored.

I agree about that aspect of it (see my post #56). Not much for the choral singer.

[Nick Armstrong]

It was excellent, I thought, Bbm - exactly the attitude I think reviewers should take. And, as the programme progressed, it was the Handley that kept provoking my greatest interest - for once, it will be the "Winner" that I'll be buying.

Completely agree with you and Bbm. A great listen this morning with the sleet and snow outside.

On reflection a pity ML didn’t refer to the Boult DVD of 1968. I’d like to have heard his thoughts.

I bought that last year but sent it back - a large percentage of the film was of experimental but now primitive-seeming arty shots of the Cathedral, and other than the opening there was practically no footage of Boult conducting, which was mainly why I bought it. The recording of the music was inferior to what is available on CD. A big disappointment. (Just seen pastoraguy echoes this view)

OMG that version from Sakari Oramo and the CBSO symphony chorus was pretty hot stuff.

Other than highlighting for me Handley's version and Rolfe-Johnson's performance, this BAL was a vivid reminder of what a superlative Elgar conductor Oramo is. The Enigma Variations which completes his set is my favourite version of all, I think.

[BBMmk2]

Hiya Cali, it seems to me that Oramo has that rare gift amongst conductors, in that he has the insight into whatever score he performs. Like that Mahler he did at last season's Proms. That was a touch of someone who had a life long study of Mahler's scores.

[seabright]

This Wiki "Gerontius" Discography will need to be updated. Interesting to see that the Alexander Gibson recording was William Mann's firest choice in 1988. There's also a somewhat recent Edo de Waart version with the Royal Flemish Philharmonic, another set that went unmentioned. Bring back "Interpretations on Record" in the afternoon for works like this - and in a longer time slot too! ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_Gerontius_discography

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Handley & chums recording was delivered and played today. My considered and perhaps over-intellectualised response is CORRRR!!

Yep - a worthy "winner"; one I anticipate returning to many, many times.

[vinteuil]

.

... I recall from third-form geography lessons something called the Tees-Exe Line.

I suspect there is a correlation here : those north of the Tees-Exe line seem more likely to 'get' The Dream of Gerontius than those living south of the line...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tees-Exe_line

Altho' here a Severn-Wash line might fit better....


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[ARBurton]

See above (posts 15 & 20) re the St Paul's Cathedral performance at which Philip Langridge sang Gerontius. There was also an excellent 1991 Prom which was televised live with Florence Quivar as a fine Angel. I was also present at the centenary performance in Birmingham (Oct 3 2000) with Sakari Oramo which was superb and which I'd love to her again.

I well remember the Gramophone review of the Handley that was decidedly negative, especially about Catherine Wyn-Rogers and the backward recording of the chorus. I saw absolutely no reason to buy it at the time. What has changed so much that it now becomes a BaL choice?

I have that 2000 Oramo broadcast - PM me!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've finally caught up with this broadcast. It's certainly interesting, but the reviewer seems to spend an inordinate time on small details, omitting huge chunks of the work.

I well remember the Gramophone review of the Handley that was decidedly negative, especially about Catherine Wyn-Rogers and the backward recording of the chorus. I saw absolutely no reason to buy it at the time. What has changed so much that it now becomes a BaL choice?

The chorus does indeed sound backward, and the soloists well forward - much more so than in the concert hall. The complete opposite of the RLPO/Handley recording of VW's Sea Symphony, which has a very natural balance (which some critics didn't like).

[Barbirollians]

I've finally caught up with this broadcast. It's certainly interesting, but the reviewer seems to spend an inordinate time on small details, omitting huge chunks of the work.



The chorus does indeed sound backward, and the soloists well forward - much more so than in the concert hall. The complete opposite of the RLPO/Handley recording of VW's Sea Symphony, which has a very natural balance (which some critics didn't like).

I do not understand the rave reviews for this BAL . A winner whose Angel is not played at all and whose singing other critical opinion has identified as the weak link . Barbirolli just ruled out late on because it was more than 50 years old . As others have said very little of the work played .

I found it unsatisfactory . If Mark Lowther needed more than 45 minutes he should have been given them .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Barbirolli just ruled out late on because it was more than 50 years old .

Yes, that was a ridiculous assertion. The sound quality of that recording is magnificent. Since that time, the improvement in recorded sound has been quite marginal.

[Barbirollians]

Yes, that was a ridiculous assertion. The sound quality of that recording is magnificent. Since that time, the improvement in recorded sound has been quite marginal.

The only criticism I really recall of the Barbirolli was that Richard Lewis might not have been at his best due to a cold . The failure to address the question of Catherine Wyn Rogers singing of the Angel was for me a serious problem .

[Pulcinella]

The chorus does indeed sound backward, and the soloists well forward - much more so than in the concert hall. The complete opposite of the RLPO/Handley recording of VW's Sea Symphony, which has a very natural balance (which some critics didn't like).

I'm pretty sure that the Handley RVW Sea Symphony had a fairly speedy remastering and reissue, so the natural balance might not have been on the original.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I was thinking on the subject of the original EMI recordings (actually, it started with The Kingdom, and the magnificent performance by Margaret Price, alongside the other notable performances) and was thinking whether EMI/Warner (oh, OK then, if I must....) Warner ex EMI would re-issue them after some serious restoration - along the lines of the recycling of the Solti ring (CD, CD remastered, CD remastered again but in parallel with the choice of the BlueRay audio, etc, etc) - i.e. offering something in return for buying the same recordings, again. I would like to know if there is better sound to be got from the master tapes of the Barbirolli Gerontius and the Boult Kingdom.

I quickly, but with regrets, dismissed the thought - unlikely to be commercially attractive as there is small international interest in these works. But I then wondered whether crowdfunding via the Elgar society might achieve a limited edition?? (Anyone know anything about how the Elgar society works - I know they have missions for outreach to music for schools/colleges, and the publishing project, and the historical recordings...). Probably a fanciful idea........

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm returning to this old thread because I've been comparing recordings, using my relatively new Elgar Complete Edition full score (2nd edition). I've revised my thoughts on some of them. I dismissed the EMI/Warner Boult recording because I wasn't happy with Helen Watts as the angel, but on returning to this, I'm less critical of her voice. The other soloists are excellent, and Boult's direction is exemplary.

I'd never considered the Rattle set, but that Proms performance Rattle conducted with the Vienna Philharmonic a few years ago encouraged me to invest, and I was swept along by the overall performance. Janet Baker was below her best, with some uncharacteristic vowel sounds in places, but her musicianship never disappoints. I do wish that live Rattle performance was available though, but without the dynamic compression that reduced the impact of the climaxes.

I've yet to resample the Hickox recording, to see whether I've come to terms with Felicity Palmer's Angel. But Elder's recording is new to me and is up there with Barbirolli and Britten.

[smittims]

In my experience Gerontius is a very difficult work to bring off satistfactorily, and I sometimes wonder if I've ever heard a 100% superb performance. One of the various ingredients is often disappointing.

I preferred Helen Watts to Janet Baker; my problem with the Boult set was Gedda, though I'd be hard-put to say just why I was uneasy. I thought Baker was better in the Rattle than in the Barbirolli, not surprisingly as she'd sung it so many times in between.

My all-time favourite remains the Columbia recording with a relatively-young Richard Lewis, Marjorie Thomas and Malcolm Sargent, though I have to admit the Demon's Chorus falls short. I recently came across a near-complete recording from the mid-30s of Sargent and Heddle Nash in Manchester, even better, especially the opening of part two, which so many conductors take too fast for my taste.