BaL 14.10.17 - Purcell: "My Heart is Inditing"

[pastoralguy]

But of course - no more or less than a blind Bordeaux tasting when the Beychevelle might be easily recognisable to a seasoned taster.

That's part of the point - the critics are in a sense as much on trial for listeners as the recordings: you would probably want to discount the opinion of any critic who didn't spot the du Pré/Barbirolli (and I bet some of the recent Record Review roster might not).

In fact, it's not that simple - sometimes, in the context of other recordings, familiar classics can cease to weave their spell. I remember one Tribune on Ravel's Shéhérazade where one recording was roundly criticised by the three critics (and I didn't like it either) - and it turned out to be the classic Crespin/Ansermet (which I thought was my touchstone in the work). The 'blind' format can challenge accepted or engrained preferences, and for me at least is all the more stimulating for that.

[teamsaint]

But of course - no more or less than a blind Bordeaux tasting when the Beychevelle might be easily recognisable to a seasoned taster.

That's part of the point - the critics are in a sense as much on trial for listeners as the recordings: you would probably want to discount the opinion of any critic who didn't spot the du Pré/Barbirolli (and I bet some of the recent Record Review roster might not).

In fact, it's not that simple - sometimes, in the context of other recordings, familiar classics can cease to weave their spell. I remember one Tribune on Ravel's Shéhérazade where one recording was roundly criticised by the three critics (and I didn't like it either) - and it turned out to be the classic Crespin/Ansermet (which I thought was my touchstone in the work). The 'blind' comparative format can challenge accepted or engrained preferences, and for me at least is all the more stimulating for that.

Mind you, sometimes the French programme bows to recognisability in opera recordings - I can remember a couple where the format was changed because it was pointless to expect Pavarotti, Domingo, Callas, Sutherland etc to remain anonymous.

Fun also to imagine the reaction of some of those stars to the concept being applied to their work.........

Actually, I'd apply a few more constraints on reviewers. NO use of the the phrase " Beautifully shaped phrasing" allowed without some actual extracts in support. And limit use of " orchestral colour" and " Texture" to once per review.
And there's more......

[jayne lee wilson]

Fun also to imagine the reaction of some of those stars to the concept being applied to their work.........

Actually, I'd apply a few more constraints on reviewers. NO use of the the phrase " Beautifully shaped phrasing" allowed without some actual extracts in support. And limit use of " orchestral colour" and " Texture" to once per review.
And there's more......

Yes, but if you wanted to try to distinguish between say, the sonic character of the Suisse Romande or the Paris Orchestra and the Berlin Phil, what other vocabulary might you begin with, or develop...?

[teamsaint]

Yes, but if you wanted to try to distinguish between say, the sonic character of the Suisse Romande or the Paris Orchestra and the Berlin Phil, what other vocabulary might you begin with, or develop...?

It's a very flexible language....... and the attempt to avoid what can be lazy and uninformative use of language could be part of a creative process. Language develops all the time. I'm sure you attempt to , and actually do find new and creative ways of expressing your thoughts about performances.

Edit.....and I did " Limit" not "ban"........

[BBMmk2]

If these blind tasting BaL's are done by the much lauded French radio programme, will be very good to hear.

[visualnickmos]

If these blind tasting BaL's are done by the much lauded French radio programme, will be very good to hear.

Yes - I'm looking forward to this 'blind' BaL. I find France Musique's 'Tribune des critiques' a very absorbing and informative programme.

[Richard Barrett]

And limit use of " orchestral colour" and " Texture" to once per review.

I couldn't manage without "texture". I know we started talking about this before, but what is it you don't like about its use? I should say that I regard it as describing something about a composition and not about its performance, some overall recognisable surface quality of its sound which isn't melody or harmony or rhythm or instrumentation, although it's contributed to by those obviously. (For example, a fugue is a texture, rather than a form, since its form can vary enormously.) I don't really think it's a word just imported from a more precise usage in some other area. Is your problem just that it's often used in an imprecise way? (Imprecise thinking will always express itself imprecisely.) What would you suggest instead?

[teamsaint]

I couldn't manage without "texture". I know we started talking about this before, but what is it you don't like about its use? I should say that I regard it as describing something about a composition and not about its performance, some overall recognisable surface quality of its sound which isn't melody or harmony or rhythm or instrumentation, although it's contributed to by those obviously. (For example, a fugue is a texture, rather than a form, since its form can vary enormously.) I don't really think it's a word just imported from a more precise usage in some other area. Is your problem just that it's often used in an imprecise way? (Imprecise thinking will always express itself imprecisely.) What would you suggest instead?

Perhaps texture is a poor choice by me, as it does have its uses, as your next book will surely demonstrate ! Really,my issue is more with a resort to cliched phrases, and where something more specific, interesting, or descriptive might be used. The word itself is being used used as a shorthand, and nothing wrong with that of course.
Going back to my post, it was a kind of plea, lighthearted, for a bit of self discipline , from which the quality of writing/ presenting might actually benefit. And in the case of "phrasing" in the context of BaL, some actual evidence , absence of which can't really be excused.

[Nick Armstrong]

EA being on his travels, he's asked me to fill in with the usual listing of 'available versions' in my OP on this thread: now done

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Many thanks, Cali.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Given the nature of the rest of next week's RR, a pity they didn't decide to do a BaL on Welcome All the Pleasures.

[Pulcinella]

Given the nature of the rest of next week's RR, a pity they didn't decide to do a BaL on Welcome All the Pleasures.

I guess that they had to choose a short piece, and one with not too many different recordings, given the 'blind tasting' format, to give a fair chance to each.
But whether My heart is inditing is substantial enough to warrant a whole BaL (would it really swing which CD of Purcell you bought?) is perhaps a concern; though it could at least give a hint as to what the rest of the CD might be like.

Christ Church 2CD set in the collection here; happy enough with it so not in the market for another.

[BBMmk2]

I guess that they had to choose a short piece, and one with not too many different recordings, given the 'blind tasting' format, to give a fair chance to each.
But whether My heart is inditing is substantial enough to warrant a whole BaL (would it really swing which CD of Purcell you bought?) is perhaps a concern; though it could at least give a hint as to what the rest of the CD might be like.

Christ Church 2CD set in the collection here; happy enough with it so not in the market for another.

I'm quite happy with the Christ Church Cathedral set as well. I have had the recording for sometime now. Perhaps it's time to update it?

Many thanks Cali, for filling in for EA.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Choir of King's College, Cambridge & Leonhardt Consort, Gustav Leonhardt (Warner Classics, Das Alte Werk)

There's some ambiguity about this version: who is actually directing the performance, Leonhardt or Willcocks?

I have the original Telefunken LP. Its sleeve-back has a photo of "David H Willcocks" only, and the bottom of the personnel listing for the Leonhardt Consort "Organ and direction: Gustav Leonhardt" then goes on with CHOIR OF KING'S COLLEGE CAMBRIDGE
Conductor: DAVID H. WILLCOCKS". (This pretty accurately reproduces the the typeface and prominence.)

I've always assumed that David H. was the man waving the stick, not Leonhardt. Leonhardt was no doubt the star Telefunken artist at the time so I'd have thought his would have been the name in the biggest letters if it had been him.

I've checked Amazon listings and while there seems to be similar confusion there, Willcocks slightly gets the nod.

Ah, just thought to look at the disc label: equal type faces but Leonhardt is the one at the bottom as if he's the main man! So still confused

[Pulcinella]

Not entirely different from the Christ Church set, which proclaims (on the back of the set)

CHOIR OF CHRIST CHURCH CATHEDRAL, OXFORD
THE ENGLISH CONCERT (Director: Trevor Pinnock)
.....
SIMON PRESTON

Preston, not Pinnock, is credited on the front, and the CDs themselves say
Choir of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford
The English Concert (Trevor Pinnock)
Simon Preston