BaL 8.07.17 - Vaughan Williams: Dona Nobis Pacem

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm very much looking forward to this BaL, as I need a new version of this work. I have the Boult version, which should be a safe bet, but I have strong issues with the voice of Sheila Armstrong on recordings. First heard her, live in concert, with Barbirolli, who clearly admired her musicianship. Have bought many recordings in which she features, she so often sounds "weak and unstable". I began to think she wasn't a very good singer, dependent on the microphone. Imagine my surprise, when I heard her singing in The Kingdom in Sheffield in the mid-1980s. She exuded joy, power and innate musicianship. The performance was so good that I travelled to Manchester to hear the repeat performance on the following day.

Yet on returning to recordings, it was the same old story. Inexplicable.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm very much looking forward to this BaL

[BBMmk2]

I think EA, David Hill's recording on naxos, will be a hard one to beat. I heard BrydenThomson's the other day, was less than impressed with the recording.

Perhaps Chandos should record this again, say with Sir Andrew Davis?

[jonfan]

RVW was such a good conductor of his own Music, as shown in his recordings of his Fourth and Fifth Symphonies, this DNP, and the Old King Cole Suite. It beggars belief that he wasn't given the same recording opportunities that were (rightly) enjoyed by Elgar. (I have five CDs which feature this work - Boult, Best ... and three versions of the composer's own recording: on PEARL, SOMM, and the BBCMusMag!)

In defence of HMV they were always pestering VW to record more of his music but he was relectant as he thought he wasn't very good.
A shame Huddersfield Choral haven't recorded the piece, they've virtually ignored it since the premiere. Finally they gave a very good performance this year with ON Orchestra and Paul Daniel, coupled with Belshazzar, therefore making sure all the extra brass engaged were fully occupied. According to the programme notes the Choral told VW not to exceed the fee of £25. Typical Yorkshire.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In defence of HMV they were always pestering VW to record more of his music but he was relectant as he thought he wasn't very good.

- many thanks for this info, jonfan (I hadn't heard this before). A great shame - his self-assessment was (on the meagre but precious evidence) so completely wrong!

[pastoralguy]

I'm very much looking forward to this BaL, as I need a new version of this work. I have the Boult version, which should be a safe bet, but I have strong issues with the voice of Sheila Armstrong on recordings. First heard her, live in concert, with Barbirolli, who clearly admired her musicianship. Have bought many recordings in which she features, she so often sounds "weak and unstable". I began to think she wasn't a very good singer, dependent on the microphone. Imagine my surprise, when I heard her singing in The Kingdom in Sheffield in the mid-1980s. She exuded joy, power and innate musicianship. The performance was so good that I travelled to Manchester to hear the repeat performance on the following day.

Yet on returning to recordings, it was the same old story. Inexplicable.

I had the same relationship with Tasmin Little's EMI recordings which I always made her sound 'flat'. (Not in pitch, just slightly uninvolved). Again, this persisted until I heard her in the flesh where I was bowled over by her sound and personality. I think her CDs for Chandos are infinitely more representative of her playing.

Sorry this is off topic but I am listening to this BaL of a work I don't know.

[jonfan]

- many thanks for this info, jonfan (I hadn't heard this before). A great shame - his self-assessment was (on the meagre but precious evidence) so completely wrong!

To clarify: Fred Gaisberg, Elgar's producer, didn't think much of VW as a conductor so contemporary with Elgar's time few 78rpm records were made, but as VW lived well into the LP era it's a serious black mark against the record industry he wasn't persuaded to make more records. He probably thought, perhaps rightly, that Sirs AB and JB could do better.

[seabright]

- many thanks for this info, jonfan (I hadn't heard this before). A great shame - his self-assessment was (on the meagre but precious evidence) so completely wrong!

That's interesting, as I felt sure I'd read somewhere that it was Fred Gaisberg of HMV who didn't think RVW was a good enough conductor, so apart from having him record the 4th Symphony he didn't engage him to do any of the others. Maybe there's a direct source somewhere to confirm this, or alternatively a source to confirm RVW's opinion of his own conducting abilities.

Edit ... PS: I see this point has already been made by jonfan. Apologies!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm ordering the recommended version. Judith Howarth is one of my favourite sopranos.

[antongould]

I'm ordering the recommended version. Judith Howarth is one of my favourite sopranos.

.... so have I EA ... and with the Earl of Seaham Harbour too .....

[jonfan]

Good top choice. I've collected all the Corydon/Best recordings of VW's lesser known choral works and not a dud among them. Pioneering support from Ted Perry of Hyperion gave these pieces the performances and recordings they deserve.
Re: VW recording reticence; I think this comes from somewhere in Michael Kennedy's writings. Apologies to be so vague.

[seabright]

We know about RVW's own Proms performances from the BBC archive - there were 20 conducting appearances between 1921 and 1952 - with one of the broadcasts, of the 5th Symphony, being issued with the 1936 "Dona Nobis Pacem" by Somm. I've been told that his 1946 performance of the "London Symphony" was recorded off the air onto acetates and that these are in the National Sound Archive. Is it really so impossible for these to be transferred onto CD, or is it just an unconfirmed rumour that they exist?

Incidentally, when you see several 35-minute first halves in the 2017 Prospectus (whatever happened to overtures?) the programme for 31 July 1946 is pretty breathtaking! Basil Cameron conducted everything apart from RVW's "London" ... ie: Mozart "Seraglio" Overture; Elgar "The Swimmer" (Sea Pictures') with Muriel Brunskill; Rachmaninov "Paganini Rhapsody" with Cyril Smith; and the "London Symphony" conducted by RVW. Then came the interval (!) followed by Debussy's "Gigues" (from 'Images') and finally Richard Strauss's "Death and Transfiguration," a work I do believe I've never heard 'live.' If this programme was all done on one morning rehearsal, as used to be the case in Henry Wood's day, one wonders what it can have been like! In any case, it's not the sort of Proms concert we'd ever be presented with again.

[pastoralguy]

I've seen programmes for all Elgar concerts where the first half is the Introduction and Allegro followed by the Violin Concerto! After the interval, the Dream of Gerontius. One obviously had to be a hardy soul to play in a British orchestra in those days.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

An inexpensive final BaL for me - I already have the Chosen One, and wasn't over-excited by the excerpts from the recordings I don't have - 'tho' if I see the Bryden Thomson in a charity shop, I'll have that one.

Altogether a very good Record Review this morning, I thought.

[EdgeleyRob]

Worthy winner musically I suppose.
For me though it doesn't have the emotional impact of Litton (despite the swift opening),RVW (despite the singing of Roy Henderson),Boult or most of all Hickox (I think Bryn Terfel is superb).

Talking of RVW conducting,interesting article here by Lewis Foreman (p 18)

https://rvwsociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/rvw_journal_17.pdf