BaL 22.04.17 - Mahler: Symphony no. 2

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've noticed this on other forums, too. I occasionally drop in, without commenting, on one or two other sites, and have noticed that the "interest" seems to be weighted to large-scale, post-classical orchestral works. People who are evidently very knowledgeable about Mahler and all manner of lesser 20th century symphonic composers, turn out to have no interest at all in opera (and even boast about this) and very little in chamber music. The baroque, as a whole, seems to be quite unpopular - relative to later periods, anyway.

Who knows why, really? But it all seems a bit odd to me.........I mean, how can people spend their time chasing up another tone poem by some minor Finnish composer, when they don't know the Ring? Or don't know the Opus 20 set by Haydn? And imagine not knowing the Marriage of Figaro, when you have seventeen versions of Bruckner 2......?

I think that there is a sort-of "filtering" taking place - that some/many of the larger numbers of people who say they like "Classical Music" (and who listen to ClassicFM but not necessarily R3) possibly like the sort of orchestral Music sound that has become familiar to them from films made inn the half-century or so between 1940 and 1990, (say, Korngold - Williams) shown in large multiplex cinemas in loud, surround-sound amplification. If this is so, then the association of orchestral sound and visual/narrative excitement makes the orchestral Music of the Late Romantics (which is the harmonic/melodic/timbral source of such film scores) more familiar.

Fewer listeners are attracted to Music that has no such "narrative" associations - just as with the controversies that arose with the emergence of "abstract" instrumental Music in the early 17th Century, the idea of Music creating its own "grammar" and "logic" totally unconnected to words or dance movements is unfamiliar to the larger number of disinterested listeners. It's something that needs repeated experience to be accustomed to; something that the pressures of time, work, and life generally makes extremely difficult for a great many people.

Forumistas generally are more accustomed to more "dedicated" (there should be a better word - I don't mean that other listeners aren't really "dedicated" to their Music) listening; but it isn't surprising that the "filter" continues here, too - with a preference for orchestral Music, even if of a more "rarefied" repertoire, outnumbering those who prefer Monteverdi Madrigals, Machaut isorhythmic motets, Webern's songs, or Haydn's String Quartets. And, of course, there are a great many of us here who delight quite as much in the Tone Poems of such a major composer as Sibelius as we do in the Consort Music of William Lawes. But, in the wider picture, more people will prefer Beethoven's Fifth Symphony to his c# minor Quartet, or The Rite of Spring to Debussy's Sonata for Flute, Harp, & Viola.

No judgement intended.

Not even in the reference to "some minor Finnish composer"? None in mine, either, even if some of my comments about percussion instruments certainly looks more pleased with itself than I'd been thinking when I typed it.


I wonder, though, if these Posts might be better accommodated on a separate Thread away from discussions of Mahler #2 and the relevant BaL?

[Pulcinella]

I wonder, though, if these Posts might be better accommodated on a separate Thread away from discussions of Mahler #2 and the relevant BaL?

Otherwise, we're in danger of Mahler 2 overtaking Bruckner 3 in the ratings!

Some other threads also probably went off on a tangent or two, which will have distorted the ranking by number of posts.

[Petrushka]

Actually, I think that surprise was being expressed that the Mahler 2 hasn't attracted much more comment than it has. I wonder if the Mahler bubble is beginning to burst? In terms of my own listening I find myself less likely to put a Mahler CD in the player these days than was once the case. There was a time when I might even play two Mahler symphonies in a day, something that would be unthinkable now and would lead to emotional overload, probably the very reason why, in my teenage angst, I did it in the first place.

There doesn't seem to be any great lessening in the number of performances of Mahler in the concert hall, as far as I can tell, but the number of new recordings has dramatically fallen away. In my own listening, Bruckner has assumed greater significance as has Sibelius and I wonder if I am responding to a trend (or even setting one).

[BBMmk2]

Mahler bubble about to burst? I hope not!!!

[pastoralguy]

Actually, I think that surprise was being expressed that the Mahler 2 hasn't attracted much more comment than it has. I wonder if the Mahler bubble is beginning to burst? In terms of my own listening I find myself less likely to put a Mahler CD in the player these days than was once the case. There was a time when I might even play two Mahler symphonies in a day, something that would be unthinkable now and would lead to emotional overload, probably the very reason why, in my teenage angst, I did it in the first place.

There doesn't seem to be any great lessening in the number of performances of Mahler in the concert hall, as far as I can tell, but the number of new recordings has dramatically fallen away. In my own listening, Bruckner has assumed greater significance as has Sibelius and I wonder if I am responding to a trend (or even setting one).

I don't play much Mahler in the chateau since, imho, its impact is always limited by the Hi-fi equipment. Hearing it live in the Usher Hall with some mighty Symphony Orchestra giving it all they've got is the only way to hear it.

[Lordgeous]

I was astonished that Tennestedt was dismisssed so casually. The live RFH recording sits in my top ten all time CD experiences, musically and technically. In fact I found myself disagreeing with almost everything the presenter said! Can someone remind me quite why it was broadcast from a cafe?!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I was astonished that Tennestedt was dismisssed so casually. The live RFH recording sits in my top ten all time CD experiences, musically and technically. In fact I found myself disagreeing with almost everything the presenter said! Can someone remind me quite why it was broadcast from a cafe?!

It was some special records/ record shop day.

The cafe had state of the art hi-fi and wasn't afraid to use it If I ever get to the Kings Cross area again I shall seek it out. (No, no smirking back there, please!)

[Maclintick]

I don't play much Mahler in the chateau since, imho, its impact is always limited by the Hi-fi equipment. Hearing it live in the Usher Hall with some mighty Symphony Orchestra giving it all they've got is the only way to hear it.

Ditto -- I realise I don't possess a single recording of GM2 but have attended many live performances over the years -- some transcendent (ECYO/Abbado/86) some earthbound (Philharmonia/Salonen/16). Maybe when I can't make it to concerts I'll buy CDs or downloads of GM2, but like you PG I find the live experience essential in this piece.

[BBMmk2]

Agreed, Barbs, but studio recordings are the next best thing, imo.

[Maclintick]

Agreed, Barbs, but studio recordings are the next best thing, imo.

Studio productions of this kind of repertoire are a thing of the past, I would venture. The majority of modern recordings of GM2 & similarly high-budget offerings are likely to be taped "live", over 2 or 3 performances, & tarted up in post-production,as per Abbado's Lucerne Festival recordings, or "LSO Live", for instance.

[richardfinegold]

Otherwise, we're in danger of Mahler 2 overtaking Bruckner 3 in the ratings!

Some other threads also probably went off on a tangent or two, which will have distorted the ranking by number of posts.

IIRC, the Bruckner 3 post count also got a boost when the sub topic of Bruckner and the Nazis was raised. At least Mahler isn't tarred by that association..
Are we also going to judge the relative worth of B3 and M2 by the number of posts in this Forum?

[visualnickmos]

Casting back to this BaL, I was very taken with the Gergiev excerpt, and I wondered if anyone here (with a better memory than mine!) can enlighten me as to which of Gergiev's recordings was the cited example?

Thanks everyone.

[Barbirollians]

I do not know the answer to That question but I have been listening this evening to a new acquisition the DG Bernstein from 1987 - it does seem slow in parts but what visceral impact it has .Hendricks and Ludwig both very fine .