BaL 22.04.17 - Mahler: Symphony no. 2

[Bryn]

One I had great expectations of, but found them dashed, was the Norrington SACD. Had he soloists better suited to the work, it might have helped, but he didn't. Sibylla Rubens in particular I found disappointing. I must dig out the Harper, Watts, LSO, Solti, and not just for nostalgic reasons.

[Petrushka]

It's a great pity that Rattle's 'farewell' 1998 CBSO live performance has never been issued in any format as it remains one of the great concert hall experiences I've had, a real privilege to have been there. The Mahler was filmed by Humphrey Burton and shown on Channel 4(!). It was also broadcast on Radio 3. Fortunately, I have the performance safely secured on to a recordable DVD. Quite why it have never been released as an official DVD is something of a mystery.

[Keraulophone]

Not really my thing, but for organ transcription fans, last month David Briggs released his arrangement for soloists, choir and organ (Blackburn Cathedral) cond. Christopher Robinson. He has given several performances of M2 arr. DJB in Europe and North America.

https://www.david-briggs.org/recordings-1

[seabright]

It's a great pity that Rattle's 'farewell' 1998 CBSO live performance has never been issued in any format as it remains one of the great concert hall experiences I've had, a real privilege to have been there. The Mahler was filmed by Humphrey Burton and shown on Channel 4(!). It was also broadcast on Radio 3. Fortunately, I have the performance safely secured on to a recordable DVD. Quite why it have never been released as an official DVD is something of a mystery.

I'm rather astonished that unless I've missed any comments on the subject, the forum regulars in here seem never to have heard of You Tube, that great resource of historic archive material which is readily available at the touch of a few key strokes. For example, I've just typed "Rattle Mahler Symphony 2" in the You Tube 'search' field and straight away there appeared the very 1998 Rattle / CBSO performance Petrushka refers to, in first-class quality, both visual and audio. If anyone wants to own a copy on DVD too, there are plenty of "download" options out there with which to capture the performance for your own collection ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwRPYijLygA

While I was at it, I checked some other televised Mahler 2nds on You Tube. They include Abbado / Lucerne Festival Orchestra; Dudamel / Simon Bolivar Symphony; Jansons / Concertgebouw; Boulez / Staatskapelle Berlin; Gergiev / Munich Philharmonic; and lots of audio recordings, ie: radio broadcasts or commercial releases, accompanied by still photos, including Bernstein, Klemperer, Stokowski, Schuricht, Mehta, Tennstedt and Rattle with the Berlin PO. Take your pick!

[Bryn]

... I've just typed "Rattle Mahler Symphony 2" in the You Tube 'search' field and straight away there appeared the very 1998 Rattle / CBSO performance Petrushka refers to, in first-class quality, both visual and audio. ...

I have distinct feeling that there are some (many?) here who might question your use of the description "first-class" in relation to audio available on YouTube. I have not checked this specific example but in general you are very lucky to get anything higher than 128kbps aac. Radio 3's iPlayer rate is 320kbps aac, i.e. two and a half times as many bits to represent the music. Try https://www.h3xed.com/blogmedia/youtube-info.php for a tool which supposedly shows the data rates for most YouTube URLs. See https://www.h3xed.com/web-and-intern...80p-720p-1080p for further info.

[seabright]

I have distinct feeling that there are some (many?) here who might question your use of the description "first-class" in relation to audio available on YouTube. I have not checked this specific example but in general you are very lucky to get anything higher than 128kbps aac. Radio 3's iPlayer rate is 320kbps aac, i.e. two and a half times as many bits to represent the music. Try https://www.h3xed.com/blogmedia/youtube-info.php for a tool which supposedly shows the data rates for most YouTube URLs. See https://www.h3xed.com/web-and-intern...80p-720p-1080p for further info.

Well it sounds perfectly fine on my extension speakers (a woofer and two tweeters)! In any case, as Petrushka says that the Rattle "has never been issued in any format" I'd have thought the TV relay on You Tube was far better than nothing at all, at any rate for anyone interested in his performance. On the other hand, the Oscar Fried acoustics, with what sounds like a 20-piece orchestra, sounds dire on any equipment, so I won't bother with listening to any more of those ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZssmIwHxc&t=59s

[BBMmk2]

Anyone seen on YouTube, a rehearsal snippet of a BBC orchestra trumpeter disagreeing with Lenny about something?!?!?

[pastoralguy]

Anyone seen on YouTube, a rehearsal snippet of a BBC orchestra trumpeter disagreeing with Lenny about something?!?!?

Yes! The notorious Enigma Variations occasion where Lenny and the BBC Symphony made it pretty clear it was not a match made in heaven! Actually, the trumpets were not in tune and Lenny merely rehearsed them. They were sufficiently graceless in refusing to acknowledge that they had improved.

[seabright]

Yes! The notorious Enigma Variations occasion where Lenny and the BBC Symphony made it pretty clear it was not a match made in heaven! Actually, the trumpets were not in tune and Lenny merely rehearsed them. They were sufficiently graceless in refusing to acknowledge that they had improved.

There used to be a long sequence on You Tube from the first Bernstein / BBCSO "Enigma" rehearsal that was filmed and televised at the same time as the live RFH performance but it's been deleted. The players clearly didn't like Lenny's brash manner right from the start. However, here is the trumpets excerpt referred to above ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dZCiMEIPZo

The relationship between Lenny and the players deteriorated rapidly and although this was supposed to be the start of an Elgar series in which he was going to record both symphonies, it ended up with him announcing that he never wanted to conduct the BBC SO again. Unsurprisingly the feeling was mutual. Curious too that the BBCSO didn't get on with another American conductor, Leonard Slatkin. He was only too glad when his contract as their Chief Conductor had run its course and he has seldom conducted in the UK since then.

[BBMmk2]

I always thought that was a great pity, re Slatkin and the BBCSO not getting on, because I always quite liked the chap.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Actually, the trumpets were not in tune and Lenny merely rehearsed them. They were sufficiently graceless in refusing to acknowledge that they had improved.

They didn't cover themselves in glory, and I suspect they regretted their rudeness, captured for all time for the world to see.

[Beef Oven!]

I always thought that was a great pity, re Slatkin and the BBCSO not getting on, because I always quite liked the chap.

Shame - Slatkin was a committed Anglophile.

[mikealdren]

Yes! The notorious Enigma Variations occasion where Lenny and the BBC Symphony made it pretty clear it was not a match made in heaven! Actually, the trumpets were not in tune and Lenny merely rehearsed them. They were sufficiently graceless in refusing to acknowledge that they had improved.

However, as a friend who was in the orchestra at the time told me recently, they were delighted when it overran into overtime!

[BBMmk2]

However, as a friend who was in the orchestra at the time told me recently, they were delighted when it overran into overtime!

I bet they were

[verismissimo]

For me, listening to the Fried recording from 1924 is like eavesdropping on a performance by Mahler himself. Of course, the sound is fairly primitive - the last year of non-electric recording, the orchestra huddled around one or maybe two horns.

Most astonishing is the Andante second movement, positively dripping with portamento - shortly to become forbidden, deemed vulgar.

I wonder if any of the recent conductors of this symphony have listened to the Fried? I compared it with BPO/Fischer, whose Andante is super-clean by comparison - and so much less moving.

It would have taken a Mackerras to try Fried's saturated portamento with a modern orchestra.