BaL 22.04.17 - Mahler: Symphony no. 2

[zola]

I heard Andrew on the radio this morning saying that he's going to be playing a Mahler 2 that arrived too late to be considered for the BaL last week but assured us we'd want to hear it.

Organ transcription.
MAHLER: Symphony No. 2 in C minor, ‘Resurrection’, tr. David Briggs
David Briggs (JW Walker & Wood organ of Blackburn Cathedral), Christina Stelmacovich (mezzo-soprano), Julia Morson (soprano), City of Birmingham Choir, Renaissance Singers
CHESTNUT MUSIC CD012

[pastoralguy]

Organ transcription.
MAHLER: Symphony No. 2 in C minor, ‘Resurrection’, tr. David Briggs
David Briggs (JW Walker & Wood organ of Blackburn Cathedral), Christina Stelmacovich (mezzo-soprano), Julia Morson (soprano), City of Birmingham Choir, Renaissance Singers
CHESTNUT MUSIC CD012

Many thanks.

[Bryn]

Considering how many posts there have been on BALs like Bruckner 3 I am surprised that the Resurrection seems to have led to little discussion in comparison .

I know there's Totenfeier, but otherwise, how many versions of the 2nd did Mahler produce? I think the question of multiple versions of the score had something to do with the length of the Bruckner 3 thread. Then there's the matter of RN only recording the Mahler once, whereas he did the Bruckner twice.

[Alison]

Considering how many posts there have been on BALs like Bruckner 3 I am surprised that the Resurrection seems to have led to little discussion in comparison .

I was thinking the same. Maybe with the Mahler there are just so many very good versions available and most of us have got ourselves sorted. Equivalently good recordings of Bruckner 3 are perhaps harder to come by. We're all searching and sifting and striving to learn more.

[waldo]

I've often wondered if there is a general rule or formula which explains the number of posts any given piece receives........In other words, can one isolate the variables which, taken together with appropriate weighting, would predict the number of posts per BAL?

Such variables might include: genre of piece (orchestral, chamber, opera etc); number of available recordings; period of composition etc....... Glancing down the list of BALs, it does seem as if symphonic works generally get more responses than others and that large-scale Romantic/late-Romantic works generate the most interest of all. Baroque, in general, does badly, as does opera.......... Though this is only from a quick glance, of course.

[BBMmk2]

There is a plethora of Mahler threads on this Forum, so I think, this is most likely to be the reason?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There is a plethora of Mahler threads on this Forum, so I think, this is most likely to be the reason?

I don't think that that's what waldo means, Bbm - more a case of how come certain works attract a great many posts (often before the actual BaL is broadcast) whilst others ... don't. I think that Bruckner's Third received the most posts (slightly - but only slightly - bolstered by people posting "let's make this the most popular Thread" comments!) whilst - with just 13 posts, Rossini's Cinderella attracted the fewest (and, IIRC, the next least popular was also a Rossini opera).

Matters of text "help" discussions on Bruckner, but even so, waldo is correct to identify the "big" late Romantic orchestral works (with Beethoven Symphonies co-opted into this category) as the ones that really fuel Forumistas' interest. I think it's a matter of familiarity and the number of available recordings: Baroque doesn't do that "badly" if it's a well-known piece by Bach/Handel (and discussions here can be fuelled by HIPP "vs" "Mod", or OVpP squab ... err ... exchanges of opinion - but a less well-known work by, say, Rameau, that has only half-a-dozen recordings will attract postings only by those who already know it, with more general comments appearing after the broadcast. With opera, Wagner, Strauss, Puccini do "well", Verdi less so (but still not badly).

A "general rule" seems simply to be that the more popular a work, the more comments it receives; and the most popular area of Music from the Western Classical Traditions at the moment is the big, lush, Late Romantic repertoire.

[gurnemanz]

.

A "general rule" seems simply to be that the more popular a work, the more comments it receives; and the most popular area of Music from the Western Classical Traditions at the moment is the big, lush, Late Romantic repertoire.

This prompted me out of curiosity to go to the BaL page and sort it according to number of replies. No 1 with 398 is Bruckner 3.

[aeolium]

Orchestral works almost invariably trump opera, chamber music, piano works and lieder. Even well-known operas like Meistersinger and Figaro only just manage 10 pages of replies, which can be exceeded by even relatively obscure symphonies. I don't understand the lack of interest in chamber music since - barring a few operas - the works that are the most important to me are all from the genre of chamber music, but there it is. It's one reason why there is such an upsurge in the number of postings during the Proms season.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Orchestral works almost invariably trump opera, chamber music, piano works and lieder. Even well-known operas like Meistersinger and Figaro only just manage 10 pages of replies, which can be exceeded by even relatively obscure symphonies. I don't understand the lack of interest in chamber music since - barring a few operas - the works that are the most important to me are all from the genre of chamber music, but there it is. It's one reason why there is such an upsurge in the number of postings during the Proms season.

In general Posts, yes - but, not in the BaL Forum (as specified by waldo), as Record Review isn't broadcast during the Proms seasons.

As for why Orchestral Music is more popular than Chamber Music - well, I share your preference, but 'twere ever thus: the glitter and colour of orchestral writing is more widely attractive (and, I think, this explains why 19th Century orchestral Music - some/much of which hides its paucity of ideas behind a few noisy drum rolls and cymbal crashes - is more popular than earlier/later examples).

Opera? Plenty of orchestral "fireworks" there - but complete works tend to require more "dedicated" listening (in terms of time needed to play through a recording of a work) which can be off-putting for many listeners (as, of course, can the notion of experiencing an Opera away from the theatrical spectacle - to say nothing of the vagaries of individual singers).

[waldo]

In general Posts, yes - but, not in the BaL Forum (as specified by waldo), as Record Review isn't broadcast during the Proms seasons.

As for why Orchestral Music is more popular than Chamber Music - well, I share your preference, but 'twere ever thus: the glitter and colour of orchestral writing is more widely attractive (and, I think, this explains why 19th Century orchestral Music - some/much of which hides its paucity of ideas behind a few noisy drum rolls and cymbal crashes - is more popular than earlier/later examples).

Opera? Plenty of orchestral "fireworks" there - but complete works tend to require more "dedicated" listening (in terms of time needed to play through a recording of a work) which can be off-putting for many listeners (as, of course, can the notion of experiencing an Opera away from the theatrical spectacle - to say nothing of the vagaries of individual singers).

I've noticed this on other forums, too. I occasionally drop in, without commenting, on one or two other sites, and have noticed that the "interest" seems to be weighted to large-scale, post-classical orchestral works. People who are evidently very knowledgeable about Mahler and all manner of lesser 20th century symphonic composers, turn out to have no interest at all in opera (and even boast about this) and very little in chamber music. The baroque, as a whole, seems to be quite unpopular - relative to later periods, anyway.

Who knows why, really? But it all seems a bit odd to me.........I mean, how can people spend their time chasing up another tone poem by some minor Finnish composer, when they don't know the Ring? Or don't know the Opus 20 set by Haydn? And imagine not knowing the Marriage of Figaro, when you have seventeen versions of Bruckner 2......?

No judgement intended. It just strikes me as a bit bananas.......

[waldo]

The Barber of Seville managed 16 posts!!!!

[gurnemanz]

Least popular by BaL replies are:

Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No 8 - 15
Dvorak: String Quartet in G, Op.106 - 14
Rossini: La Cenerentola - 12
Purcell: The Fairy Queen - 10

-

[BBMmk2]

I don't think that that's what waldo means, Bbm - more a case of how come certain works attract a great many posts (often before the actual BaL is broadcast) whilst others ... don't. I think that Bruckner's Third received the most posts (slightly - but only slightly - bolstered by people posting "let's make this the most popular Thread" comments!) whilst - with just 13 posts, Rossini's Cinderella attracted the fewest (and, IIRC, the next least popular was also a Rossini opera).

Matters of text "help" discussions on Bruckner, but even so, waldo is correct to identify the "big" late Romantic orchestral works (with Beethoven Symphonies co-opted into this category) as the ones that really fuel Forumistas' interest. I think it's a matter of familiarity and the number of available recordings: Baroque doesn't do that "badly" if it's a well-known piece by Bach/Handel (and discussions here can be fuelled by HIPP "vs" "Mod", or OVpP squab ... err ... exchanges of opinion - but a less well-known work by, say, Rameau, that has only half-a-dozen recordings will attract postings only by those who already know it, with more general comments appearing after the broadcast. With opera, Wagner, Strauss, Puccini do "well", Verdi less so (but still not badly).

A "general rule" seems simply to be that the more popular a work, the more comments it receives; and the most popular area of Music from the Western Classical Traditions at the moment is the big, lush, Late Romantic repertoire.

Thank you Ferney! I am surprised too with the infrequent number of posts with this thread! I am also surprised that Solti wasn't chosen either! shock horror!

[Dave2002]

Organ transcription.
MAHLER: Symphony No. 2 in C minor, ‘Resurrection’, tr. David Briggs
David Briggs (JW Walker & Wood organ of Blackburn Cathedral), Christina Stelmacovich (mezzo-soprano), Julia Morson (soprano), City of Birmingham Choir, Renaissance Singers
CHESTNUT MUSIC CD012

I heard the ending - very impressive.