BaL 18.03.17 - Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time

[Richard Barrett]

See makro's comment in #90, for instance. The 1988 version, which I have, was/is fine.

Oh yes, I see now.

A MISSING CHORD!!!!!!!??? Amazing that people can be so sloppy in the studio. But where is it actually?

I haven't heard Hill or Muraro in the Catalogue (sliding off the topic here) but rightly or wrongly I've always had the feeling that Loriod's way of voicing chords and generally balancing textures is something I haven't heard from anyone else, and I assume this is the way Messiaen himself liked it best - although he seems to have given his approval to sometimes quite differently interpreted recordings of the same piece, unless I'm mistaken.

[Beresford]

...
If you are happy with Amazon mp3s, look at ASIN: B0017HFREY at amazon.co.uk where the price for the Peter Hill recordings of nearly all of Messiaen's piano music, plus the organ music and song cycles (17 CDs worth) is but £5.99!

Could you check this, please, Bryn, as my searches end up with the Austbo mp3 downloads? And thanks for the valuable info on recordings.

[makropulos]

Could you check this, please, Bryn, as my searches end up with the Austbo mp3 downloads? And thanks for the valuable info on recordings.

It's this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Messiaen-Willem-Ingrid-Kappelle-Austbx-x/dp/B0017HFREY

Despite mentioning Austbo, he only plays in the songs - the piano works are played by Hill. (See illustration of back cover).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Messiaen-Willem-Ingrid-Kappelle-Austbx-x/dp/B0017HFREY

Despite mentioning Austbo, he only plays in the songs - the piano works are played by Hill. (See illustration of back cover).

But if you click on MP3 (at £5.99) the only performance on offer is the NAXOS Austbo La Fauvette des Jardins etc - not the entire contents of the Boxed Set.

[Bryn]

But if you click on MP3 (at £5.99) the only performance on offer is the NAXOS Austbo La Fauvette des Jardins etc - not the entire contents of the Boxed Set.

Ah. Since I already have all the recordings in the set supposedly on offer there, I did not go as far as trying to order the mp3s. Might be worth having a go at Amazon for what appears to be a case of misselling.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah. Since I already have all the recordings in the set supposedly on offer there, I did not go as far as trying to order the mp3s. Might be worth having a go at Amazon for what appears to be a case of misselling.

Not for the first time, either!

I already have the Hill recordings in the REGIS box (and very good, too) - but I notice that the Bate Organ set is available complete as an MP3 download for £8, so might very well be parting with money in due course.

[visualnickmos]

This was a good BaL. I'm not getting into "Is a twofer BaL good or bad?" That's another issue entirely.

I know very little of Massiaen's music. I have just three CDs which I've had for donkeys' years. The symphony, of course (Chailly - EMI) and two QPFTs: (Yordanoff/Tetard/Desurmont/Barenboim - DG) and (Gruenberg/de Peyer/Pleeth/Berof - EMI) I particularly enjoy the EMI QPFT. I love the way that although each instrument seems to have many 'highlights' and forays of individuality, these players keep everything beautifully knitted together, so although it is a rather 'jagged' piece, they make me feel that they are clicking together with ease, and it's a given, that they play superbly.

However, I think I may have a slight blindspot regarding Messiaen, as although I enjoy the listening experience (!) I find myself asking "Should I be listening out for something in particular?" or "Am I missing something?"

Therefore, and here we go: if I was to acquire the recommendation, what would be the 'improvement' I should be looking for, that would give me something more to add to what I already enjoy so much? In other words, what argument could be used to persuade me to acquire the recommendation? What would I be getting that I don't have already?

Do you see what I mean? It's not exactly a dilemma, more of a debating point...

[makropulos]

This was a good BaL. I'm not getting into "Is a twofer BaL good or bad?" That's another issue entirely.

I know very little of Massiaen's music. I have just three CDs which I've had for donkeys' years. The symphony, of course (Chailly - EMI) and two QPFTs: (Yordanoff/Tetard/Desurmont/Barenboim - DG) and (Gruenberg/de Peyer/Pleeth/Berof - EMI) I particularly enjoy the EMI QPFT. I love the way that although each instrument seems to have many 'highlights' and forays of individuality, these players keep everything beautifully knitted together, so although it is a rather 'jagged' piece, they make me feel that they are clicking together with ease, and it's a given, that they play superbly.

However, I think I may have a slight blindspot regarding Messiaen, as although I enjoy the listening experience (!) I find myself asking "Should I be listening out for something in particular?" or "Am I missing something?"

Therefore, and here we go: if I was to acquire the recommendation, what would be the 'improvement' I should be looking for, that would give me something more to add to what I already enjoy so much? In other words, what argument could be used to persuade me to acquire the recommendation? What would I be getting that I don't have already?

Do you see what I mean? It's not exactly a dilemma, more of a debating point...

The EMI De Peyer/Pleeth/Gruenberg/Beroff Quartet is a terrific recording - and one about which the reviewer found plenty to praise (especially Pleeth's "Louange"). There are lots of problems with Barenboim's version, but with Beroff et al you've got a seriously good version which lacks - only - the sound of a great French clarinettist (Guy Deplus) in the Abime des Oiseaux. In other words, I'm not sure you'd necessarily be getting very much that you're not getting already!

[visualnickmos]

The EMI De Peyer/Pleeth/Gruenberg/Beroff Quartet is a terrific recording - and one about which the reviewer found plenty to praise (especially Pleeth's "Louange"). There are lots of problems with Barenboim's version, but with Beroff et al you've got a seriously good version which lacks - only - the sound of a great French clarinettist (Guy Deplus) in the Abime des Oiseaux. In other words, I'm not sure you'd necessarily be getting very much that you're not getting already!

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your post (msg. no. 86) is very illuminating. In fact I want to explore and hear more Messiæn.

[BBMmk2]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your post (msg. no. 86) is very illuminating. In fact I want to explore and hear more Messiæn.

Good to hear Visual! His music will reap it's rewards o you. It's so different from other composers, before or since.

[Bryn]

Oh yes, I see now.

A MISSING CHORD!!!!!!!??? Amazing that people can be so sloppy in the studio. But where is it actually?

Since I don't have that later boxed set, that's a question for Makro to answer.

[Bryn]

This was a good BaL. I'm not getting into "Is a twofer BaL good or bad?" That's another issue entirely.

I know very little of Massiaen's music. I have just three CDs which I've had for donkeys' years. The symphony, of course (Chailly - EMI) and two QPFTs: (Yordanoff/Tetard/Desurmont/Barenboim - DG) and (Gruenberg/de Peyer/Pleeth/Berof - EMI) I particularly enjoy the EMI QPFT. I love the way that although each instrument seems to have many 'highlights' and forays of individuality, these players keep everything beautifully knitted together, so although it is a rather 'jagged' piece, they make me feel that they are clicking together with ease, and it's a given, that they play superbly.

However, I think I may have a slight blindspot regarding Messiaen, as although I enjoy the listening experience (!) I find myself asking "Should I be listening out for something in particular?" or "Am I missing something?"

Therefore, and here we go: if I was to acquire the recommendation, what would be the 'improvement' I should be looking for, that would give me something more to add to what I already enjoy so much? In other words, what argument could be used to persuade me to acquire the recommendation? What would I be getting that I don't have already?

Do you see what I mean? It's not exactly a dilemma, more of a debating point...

A minor point, the Chailly Turangalila was a Decca recording, not EMI. It did eventually turn up remastered in surround SACD (a mix I did not like much). When the CD was released I recall a review which asserted it was far too fast in its tempi, the benchmarks used being he likes of Rattle and Previn, both of whom elongate the work to over 80 minutes. The early recorded performances under Désormière and Rosbaud were both far swifter than was Chailly. Indeed, the Rosbaud comes in at under 70 minutes! The Chailly stretches to 76' 38". Although it was not yet published at the time of the recording, the Chailly also used Messiaen's revised score. I do like the 2 channel stereo mix.

[BBMmk2]

Bryn, what's your favourite recording of QFTEoT?

[Bryn]

Bryn, what's your favourite recording of QFTEoT?

Tashi, of course, but there is a special case for that involving some of the original performers. That said, I concur with Rebecca Rischin that the 31 recordings she lists all have their merits and are thus "highly recommended".

[As Rischin mentions, Messiaen was directly involved in five of the commercial recordings of the work, and played the piano in one of them. I have 4 of them and have just ordered that by the "Quatuor Olivier Messiaen". They are all very different in terms of tempi and dynamics. Indeed, in the updated paperback edition of For the End of Time, she questions Etienne Pasquier's assertion that the recording with Messiaen playing the piano part is exemplary. She points out that some tempi adopted for that recording were greatly at variance, sometimes much faster, sometimes considerably slower, with those marked in the score. This despite Pasquier stating that Messiaen was very strict about such matters during the recording sessions.]

[Barbirollians]

I have had the de Peyer etc for a while but bought a copy of the Tashi just after the BAL and it has sat unplayed for six months .

I have listened to it tonight and am entirely in the Tashi fan club . I like its lack of striving for profundity letting the music speak for itself , I have never quite understood why Stoltzmann is such a Marmite clarinettist . There is a lightness to it that seems so much more to have the sense of its programme than where it was first performed about it .

Kavafian and Serkin in the eighth movement strike me as absolutely perfect .