BaL 18.03.17 - Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time

[ardcarp]

Each time I have heard the QFTEOT live, it is the cello solo which transports me into that meditative plane which (presumably) Messiaen intended. I find it quite incredible that the Decca record producer should have allowed the piano to predominate in the cello+piano and violin+piano movements. As we heard it on R3 today it wasn't just a slight balance problem, it was clearly wrong.

The job of a record producer occasionally involves 'speaking truth to power'. (I have personally witnessed this when present at a few recording sessions at which Erik Smith was producer.) By not doing so, an otherwise excellent version of QFTEOT seems to be ruled out by movements V and VIII.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I suspect Andrew has little input into that decision and is merely told what to do by the editorial team.

Didn't Cali post recently a conversation he had with AMcG in which he (AMcG) said that new/inexperienced presenters weren't going to be let loose on the airwaves with a Live BaL - suggesting that he (AMcG) agreed completely with this policy? How "inexperienced" wasn't entirely clear, and there have been BaL solo presentations by commentators with much less airwave experience than Ms Molleson this morning. I am less enthusiastic about AMcG than is Alpie (for example) and I am biased towards the prejudiced view that he is much more culpable in the choice of such matters than his amiable persona might suggest.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Each time I have heard the QFTEOT live, it is the cello solo which transports me into that meditative plane which (presumably) Messiaen intended. I find it quite incredible that the Decca record producer should have allowed the piano to predominate in the cello+piano and violin+piano movements. As we heard it on R3 today it wasn't just a slight balance problem, it was clearly wrong.

Yes - and the "wrongness" is suggested in the score where both parts are marked p. The forward balance of the piano on the recording (at least as it sounded on my radio) suggested that there should be a louder dynamic for the piano than for the 'cello. And your "presumption"* about the composer's intentions are also supported in what Messiaen writes: Infinitement lent; estatique ("infinitely slow; ecstatic") for both parts and majestueux, recueilli, tres espressif ("majestic, collected, very expressive") for the 'cello only.

* - that looks very wrong!

[DracoM]

Well, if they are that worried about 'inexperience', then b***y well, pre-record / edit it!!!!!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, if they are that worried about 'inexperience', then b***y well, pre-record / edit it!!!!!!

- exactly(-ish) how I replied when Cali posted.

[pastoralguy]

Well, if they are that worried about 'inexperience', then b***y well, pre-record / edit it!!!!!!

Well, ok but this is a 'live' event with all the immediacy that this entails. Anyone turning up to the Sage in the early morning wants to experience more than a tape turning.

[Bryn]

Well, ok but this is a 'live' event with all the immediacy that this entails. Anyone turning up to the Sage in the early morning wants to experience more than a tape turning.

They just might also hope to get reviewers who can read a score.

[seabright]

- exactly(-ish) how I replied when Cali posted.

Does anyone remember a time when A.McG wasn't the RReview presenter? Better still, does anyone recall when the presenters changed every year or so? I guess A.McG must have a lifetime contract and will still be doing it when he's in his 80s, rather like BBC disc-jockeys David Jacobs and Jimmy Young of blessed memory! Personally I'd like some fresh opinions on each week's new releases but I guess it's not going to happen any time soon.

[Pulcinella]

Roll on our own Summer BaLs: often much better informed comments!

They just might also hope to get reviewers who can read a score.

At least when I had a bash at a subset of Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms recordings I pointed out the places in the score where I was particularly interested in seeing how the performers coped. My mistake this morning, rapidly corrected by ferney and endorsed by Richard, was to trust the presenter's (non)legato comment!

[ardcarp]

They just might also hope to get reviewers who can read a score.

Returning to Mov't V of QFTEOT, can anyone with a score to hand say whether the piano RH is marked to give emphasis to the top note of each chord? Olly M. was making it sing out as if it were something important...maybe the song of a reed warbler slowed down 100times?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Returning to Mov't V of QFTEOT, can anyone with a score to hand say whether the piano RH is marked to give emphasis to the top note of each chord? Olly M. was making it sing out as if it were something important...maybe the song of a reed warbler slowed down 100times?

Not just the top note, no. The Piano part consists of three-note chords throughout ( from letter D - the subito ppp moment - the bottom note is doubled an octave lower, making sort-of four-note chords) all of which have both > and - markings at various points (to begin with* 10, 7, 10, 4, 8 semiquavers, repeated, then it
changes). All three (/four) notes of the chord should be emphasized at these points ('though Messiaen states that these emphases should all be within the overall piano marking - it could be argued that Olly M "overdoes" them - but he might counter-argue that the simultaneous accent and tenuto markings suggests something a bit more than a gentle "urging" is required).



* = Edit: The actual frequency of semiquavers between accented chords is [A] 10, 7, 10, 4, 8 (repeated) [B]15, 15, 4, 5, 4, 5, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 4, 2, [C] 9, 5, 7, 17, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 10, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 4, 7, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, [D] 13, 4, 4, 4, 8, 4, 8, 26, 4, 4, 4, 4 (then 8, rest, 6, rest, 4 - with no accents after the first 8.) And not a lot of people know that.

[CallMePaul]

Does anyone remember a time when A.McG wasn't the RReview presenter? Better still, does anyone recall when the presenters changed every year or so? I guess A.McG must have a lifetime contract and will still be doing it when he's in his 80s, rather like BBC disc-jockeys David Jacobs and Jimmy Young of blessed memory! Personally I'd like some fresh opinions on each week's new releases but I guess it's not going to happen any time soon.

The late John Lade introduced the programme for many years; after his retirement it was introduced by whomever was doing the BAL feature. AMcG took over when Sir Nick extended the programme to its present length in the 1990s.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The late John Lade introduced the programme for many years; after his retirement it was introduced by whomever was doing the BAL feature. AMcG took over when Sir Nick extended the programme to its present length in the 1990s.

Not quite - Richard Osborne presented (without then doing the BaL - introducing each feature) immediately before Kenyon replaced him with AMcG. The late Paul Vaughan also presented between Lade and Osborne.

[DracoM]

Q: is 'immediacy' and 'impact' more or less important as the careful evolution of a final choice, partic when in a tricky target subject the reviewer does not know when he /s he is about to be second-guessed or bossed by the resident presenter? ?

[visualnickmos]

This thread seems to have gone completely off-topic. It's supposed to be about the BaL, ergo the work in question, as opposed to the relative merits or otherwise of the style/history of the presentation. Tut, tut!