BaL 25.02.17 - Ives: Symphony no. 2

[Bryn]

So far I am very much more with Elkus than Seckerson (who appears heavily stuck in the Ives edited and 'improved' Bernstein mold).

[PJPJ]

So far I am very much more with Elkus than Seckerson (who appears heavily stuck in the Ives edited and 'improved' Bernstein mold).

"........Monty Pythonesque chord....." seems a good description!

[Bryn]

"........Monty Pythonesque chord....." seems a good description!

Well that's what Bernstein and his acolytes gurned it into, but it was not what Ives wrote or intended. A very poor BaL indeed, in my view

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So far I am very much more with Elkus than Seckerson (who appears heavily stuck in the Ives edited and 'improved' Bernstein mold).

Yes - I wish they'd got an Ives authority rather than a Bernstein enthusiast to deliver this BaL. Still, as so often, the excerpts from the recordings made it clear when ES was talking out of an orifice other than his mouth - when I heard the Detroit/Jarvi I thought for the first time how the Music sounded so "like Ives". I already have the recommended recording(s) - the Schermerhorn and Jarvi have gone into my "basket" ready for next week.

[PJPJ]

Well that's what Bernstein and his acolytes gurned it into, but it was not what Ives wrote or intended. A very poor BaL indeed, in my view

I was a little surprised at the ease with which distortions of the text were accepted.

[pastoralguy]

I was a little surprised at the ease with which distortions of the text were accepted.

Yes, I wondered about that too.

(I hate to mention it, but I do remember Ida Haendel being disqualified from the BaL on Britten's Violin Concerto because she changed a bar)

[ardcarp]

Oh dear: another 'twofer'.


I do wish Andrew would stop trying to lead the debate!

That such a seasoned reviewer as ES should need Andrew to hold his hand beggars belief. However, Andrew was kept rather firmly in his place I felt, with occasional comments by ES, e.g. I'll be coming to that in due course or words to that effect.

On to Ives! I very seldom rush out and buy the object of a BAL, but as there is a yawning gap in my CD heap, I may very well go for the earlier Bernstein. I found myself smiling quite a lot.

[Lat-Literal]

Have rarely if ever commented in this section and won't do so regularly. However, I listened to the section of the programme carefully, having been with R3 since before breakfast. To my ears, their comments were mainly right, especially in the slower more expressive Bernstein, but I could see that it would be a problem for some with the one minute cut.

Then I had a look at my second-hand four symphony set to remind myself who I had. It is a mixture of Mehta, Dohnanyi and Marriner on Decca. Mehta for the second. I think the programme echoes published reviews in that it restates what we all know which is that individual opinion differs although there may be trends. This thread reinforces that point.

The feature is all to the good in that it is interesting and it is helpful to those who want the perceived best in their comprehensive collections. But if I check first on written reviews and find one that seems acceptable, I'm happy to settle with it and spend any little extra money on a wider range of compositions. That is, unless I find the sound is truly atrocious.

[Beef Oven!]

That such a seasoned reviewer as ES should need Andrew to hold his hand beggars belief. However, Andrew was kept rather firmly in his place I felt, with occasional comments by ES, e.g. I'll be coming to that in due course or words to that effect.

Well, if you decide that the reason for AM to be involved is because ES needed him to hold his hand, that would be hard to believe. But that’s a straw-man. Things evolve, change, over time and we either like the change or not. I happen to like the double-act format as much as the traditional approach, and quite welcome it from time to time. We know that there have been quite a number poor single-handed BaLs down the years (and recent times, too), so format is not the explaining variable.

On to Ives! I very seldom rush out and buy the object of a BAL, but as there is a yawning gap in my CD heap, I may very well go for the earlier Bernstein. I found myself smiling quite a lot.

On to Ives, if you decide to go for the earlier Bernstein, and you’re ok with downloads, may I suggest a look at Qobuz who have it for a mere £3.09 c/w symphony #3 and Bernstein's excellent discussion of Ives.

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/ives-symphonie-no2-et-symphonie-no3-the-camp-meeting-leonard-bernstein-discusses-charles-ives-bernstein-symphony-edition-vol25-leonard-bernstein/0886443110021?qref=dac_6

[Pulcinella]

That such a seasoned reviewer as ES should need Andrew to hold his hand beggars belief. However, Andrew was kept rather firmly in his place I felt, with occasional comments by ES, e.g. I'll be coming to that in due course or words to that effect.

On to Ives! I very seldom rush out and buy the object of a BAL, but as there is a yawning gap in my CD heap, I may very well go for the earlier Bernstein. I found myself smiling quite a lot.

Cut and final chord notwithstanding, I preferred the Bernstein to the more refined MTT version, though I hope to listen to that tomorrow.

And the chat goes on in the next part of the programme: not sure how much more I can bear!

[Beef Oven!]

Cut and final chord notwithstanding, I preferred the Bernstein to the more refined MTT version, though I hope to listen to that tomorrow.

And the chat goes on in the next part of the programme: not sure how much more I can bear!

C'mon! You can handle the chat! Shoulders back, look straight ahead and get on with it in a British manly fashion!

I like you, prefer the Bernstein to the Tilson Thomas, I think. I may resist getting the MTT.

[Bryn]

For a better informed, though not particularly up to date, survey of recordings of the work, see http://www.musicweb-international.com/Ives/RR_Sym_2.htm .

[Beef Oven!]

For a better informed, though not particularly up to date, survey of recordings of the work, see http://www.musicweb-international.com/Ives/RR_Sym_2.htm .

Was looking at that last night, but it was late and I was tired so had to turn-in. Will look later today.

[Pulcinella]

C'mon! You can handle the chat! Shoulders back, look straight ahead and get on with it in a British manly fashion!

But I'm a 'snowflake', as I voted Remain!

I like you, ......

Kind of you to say so!

[Beef Oven!]

But I'm a 'snowflake', as I voted Remain!



Kind of you to say so!

I struggle with commas!

Was relieved when the Transit came along.