BaL 11.02.17 - Bach: Mass in B minor

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think the "relentless" comment was directed (quite rightly, I thought) at the more recent JEGgers recording, rather than the DG - which I used to enjoy a lot more tha n I have done the past couple of times I've listened to it.

For the Live cantata recordings, I'm my usual cussed self - I didn't really like listening to them on CD, but watching the exact same performances on youTube videos I found immensely satisfying. Sometimes I exasperate myself!

[vinteuil]

For the Live cantata recordings, I'm my usual cussed self - I didn't really like listening to them on CD, but watching the exact same performances on youTube videos I found immensely satisfying. Sometimes I exasperate myself!

... the answer is to use the youTube videos, but to keep your eyes closed.

.


I agree with the views above regarding John-Eliot Gardiner.

When I first encountered his work in Bach and then Mozart I was exhilarated - I thought "Things don't get better than this!"

Time passes: I listen again, I discover Jacobs, Harnoncourt, Herreweghe, Kuijken, Bruggen - and I find J-E G again and again to be 'relentless', driven to the exclusion of breathing space, razor-sharp but curiously heartless.

I find I listen to him less and less. (Tho' I still enjoy his Bach Cantatas from the 'pilgrimage' box.)

[BBMmk2]

Listening to the Parrott now, as it happens. Yes - if 'inexhaustible' ever applies to music, it applies to this piece.

Re: JEG - you may be right. Also it seems to me that he feels the need to make something "big" of the Mass and the Passions, which for him equates to making them more driven, theatrical, almost lurid. Nick Kenyon's word "relentless" seems about right to me. Whereas the cantatas with their more intimate feel bring out a different sort of music-making, and the music is allowed to speak for itself.

I always thought especially with the St Matthew passion, that it was theatre?(Not necessarily the Mass in B minor)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... the answer is to use the youTube videos, but to keep your eyes closed.

There's something about watching Musicians working that really boosts my enjoyment and involvement in Music-making. It's my equivalent, if you will, of what imagining bunnies hopping around until pink fluffy clouds is for some other listeners.

[MickyD]

I am currently listening to the Robert King version on Hyperion. It is interesting, not only because of it being an all-male version, but because of the use of the Tolz Boys Choir, who produce a much more chest-voiced style of delivery as opposed to their English counterparts - it puts me in mind of Harnoncourt's recordings. You also get Michael George and Anthony Rolfe Johnson. Nice speeds and playing...the recording is good and there are good notes. All for the price of 1 CD.

[silvestrione]

. But more than anything else it made me realise that I could listen to this work almost endlessly.

Over the last two weeks I've been reflecting on almost the opposite, the fact that I do not need a recording of this work, because, although it is indeed one of my favourite things and is obviously one of the great masterpieces, because of its character and origin, it seems wrong to sit in a room (on one's own, as it tends to be with me) and hear it coming out of a machine and speakers. It belongs to a communal, collective occasion! It is like an act of worship, in a way. I last heard it in Kings College Chapel....that was about right.

I can listen to the 48 and the Partitas almost endlessly. The Mass and the Passions need a special occasion.

[Nick Armstrong]

I last heard it in Kings College Chapel....that was about right.

I first heard it in King's College Chapel... that was absolutely right - opened a new musical door for the 20 year-old Caliban!

I find J-E G again and again to be 'relentless' ... curiously heartless.

I find I listen to him less and less. (Tho' I still enjoy his Bach Cantatas from the 'pilgrimage' box.)

Yes 'heartless' is a word that's occurred to me too.

Funnily enough though, my most recent purchase is his Midsummer Night's Dream music, the new LSO release from the concert last February. Lots of heart and delicacy there (Perhaps we should have a JEG thread - or resurrect one, if there has been already...)

[Stanley Stewart]

Haven't the patience to troll though this thread, apart from noting the listing of available recordings, but proffer my apologies if my preference has already been discussed. By coincidence, I've transferred a selection of favourite Proms and concerts during the past week when 'shivering pines do clime the day' and selected a 2012 TV prom for transfer to DVD; Bach's B minor Mass, Prom 26. Choir of the English Concert, The English Concert/Harry Bicket. Soloists, Joelle Harvey, Malin Christensson, Iestyn Davies, Ed Lyon and Matthew Rose.

Baroque specialist Harry Bicket returned to the Proms hotfoot from the 2012 Leipzig Bachfest with one of music's great milestones and the performance gained its momentum with an accrued confidence from an already acclaimed performance in every respect, the viewer could guage the intensity and 'silences' of a packed auditorium. Substantial choral forces registered from the opening and Iestyn Davies, new to me at the time, sang with a clarity which also indicated an artist gifted with that 'little something extra', the closing 'give us peace' so heartrending, yet its mysteries remain. A useful interval feature when Harry Bicket discussed the the historical background to the work and its neglect for so long.

[Richard Barrett]

I am currently listening to the Robert King version on Hyperion. It is interesting, not only because of it being an all-male version, but because of the use of the Tolz Boys Choir, who produce a much more chest-voiced style of delivery as opposed to their English counterparts - it puts me in mind of Harnoncourt's recordings. You also get Michael George and Anthony Rolfe Johnson. Nice speeds and playing...the recording is good and there are good notes. All for the price of 1 CD.

I'm listening to this now, for the first time, and I agree. The boy soloists are astonishingly good. There are a few things I didn't like so much, like the huge fermata at the end of the opening Kyrie peroration which seems completely out of style, but this is one I think I'll be returning to.

[MickyD]

I'm listening to this now, for the first time, and I agree. The boy soloists are astonishingly good. There are a few things I didn't like so much, like the huge fermata at the end of the opening Kyrie peroration which seems completely out of style, but this is one I think I'll be returning to.

I'm glad someone out there has heard this version and is impressed by it. It seems to have been curiously overlooked by many since it came out. And the use of all-male voices does make it unique, I think - even in Harnoncourt's pioneering version, he used a woman soloist.

[teamsaint]

I'm glad someone out there has heard this version and is impressed by it. It seems to have been curiously overlooked by many since it came out. And the use of all-male voices does make it unique, I think - even in Harnoncourt's pioneering version, he used a woman soloist.

I imagine that some people are ignoring the King recording because of his conviction.

If he was in the rock /pop or whatever, he'd never get a mention or play on radio.

[gradus]

Has anyone listened to the original BAL recommendation (from 197?) - HvK's DGG stereo version? A reminder that today's performing styles are just that.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Has anyone listened to the original BAL recommendation (from 197?) - HvK's DGG stereo version? A reminder that today's performing styles are just that.

With the wonderful Gundula Janowitz ? Oh, yes! I don't remember that version being recommended - I do remember it being respectfully put on one side in the mid-80s (although the reviewer noted that it had "a spirituality, even if not necessarily the type that Bach might have wanted" or some such). It's been a while since I listened to it, but the Philharmonia recording seemed to me to be much more "vital"; the DG more a reminder that yesterday's performing styles are just that.

[BBMmk2]

I won't say anymore about Gardiner's DG recording. I heard the Concerto Copenhagen recording yesterday. I found this rather heavy going. perhaps I have become used to Gardiner's 'heartless' account! Will return to this. Have yet to listen to the Andrew Parrott recording.

[Richard Barrett]

I'm glad someone out there has heard this version and is impressed by it. It seems to have been curiously overlooked by many since it came out. And the use of all-male voices does make it unique, I think - even in Harnoncourt's pioneering version, he used a woman soloist.

Quite. And the high voice soloists for his later Bach recordings were generally not, I think, on the level of the boys on King's recording. As I said I don't like everything about it, some of the phrasing strikes me as odd and the strings are sometimes a bit characterless, but the singing overall is a very strong point.