BaL 11.02.17 - Bach: Mass in B minor

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It still doesn't satisfy those who argue that "Bach expected the poor players to gasp for breath, so the embarrassing gaps are an essential part of the performance".

Because they (I should say "we") don't consider the players to be "poor", nor the gaps to be "embarrassing".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Because they (I should say "we") don't consider the players to be "poor", nor the gaps to be "embarrassing".

I should point out that I don't mean "poor" as in "bad" here,but as in "unfortunate": to be given that Music to play makes them very, very fortunate.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I should point out that I don't mean "poor" as in "bad" here,but as in "unfortunate": to be given that Music to play makes them very, very fortunate.

Indeed, though when I've played Bach works in orchestras, the players have often congratulated obligato players, more for their stamina than for their musicianship.

[Conchis]

I'm only interested in Klemperer's recording; the rest can go take a walk! :)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm only interested in Klemperer's recording; the rest can go take a walk! :)

A much brisker one than Herr Otto's!

[Bryn]

Yes, DHM's silliness I'm afraid - as Vinteuil mentioned, Cantatas 1 and 2 take 58'56", Cantatas 3 and 4 take 51'53" and Cantatas 5 and 6 take 52"19". They could have been accommodated on 2 discs, surely.

But take note that unlike the other works in the box, this performance is NOT with La Petite Bande but with Collegium Aureum - I think it dates from around 1973, so not as HIPP as later versions would be. Nonetheless it has always had a place in my affections and I think it used to be Nicholas Anderson's favourite, too.

Cantata 3 takes just under 25 minutes in this recording, so unless that cantata was to be split over two discs the DHM solution of using three discs make good sense.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Cantata 3 takes just under 25 minutes in this recording, so unless that cantata was to be split over two discs the DHM solution of using three discs make good sense.

Yes - the latter is how the Herreweghe and first Harnoncourt are accommodated onto two discs. A bit annoying on 27th December - but more environmentally friendly? (It is at moments such as these that I can imagine those who prefer to Download feeling very pleased with themselves!)

[Bryn]

Yes - the latter is how the Herreweghe and first Harnoncourt are accommodated onto two discs. A bit annoying on 27th December - but more environmentally friendly? (It is at moments such as these that I can imagine those who prefer to Download feeling very pleased with themselves!)

Further, had they split Cantata 3 they could still have had a 10 disc boxed set by including their out of print disc of the Cantatas BWV 9, 94 and 187 (Petite Bande et al).

[That looks a pretty attractive recording, by the way. Fortunately it is available for download from QOBUZ, etc.]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Further, had they split Cantata 3 they could still have had a 10 disc boxed set by including their out of print disc of the Cantatas BWV 9, 94 and 187 (Petite Bande et al).

[Pulcinella]

Following the generally positive comments here (though I think that the reviewer had a grouse about one passage in the B minor) I have splashed out and just ordered this 10CD set; thanks to ts for spotting it.

[Beresford]

I have a home recording of a 'live' performance of the Bminor Mass by Karl-Friedrich Beringer with the Munich CO and Windsbach boys choir, broadcast on TTN on 13th July 1998. It has remained one of my favourite versions - soaring boys chorus, and a small orchestra trying hard to play in a baroque way. (But I have not heard Dijkstra.)
But I only recorded the second half, and even that was truncated by a minute at the end, when the minidisc ran out of space.
Last year I bought the CD, and it is very good, but without the exhilaration of the live version. The CD has soprano Christine Schaffer, rather than Ann Monoyios. If anyone has a recording of that concert (where else to ask?) I would be pleased to hear it.

[Nick Armstrong]

Just caught up - couldn't put it better than this:

A marvellous BaL... I just wish he had been given more time. I wd have loved to hear him give a fuller appraisal of the three different Herreweghes (tho' I think he was cool about Herreweghe's - cool - approach...), and more about the differences between the 1989 and 2009 Bruggens. Particularly I wd have been interested to hear what he had to say about both Harnoncourts - clearly he saw the 1968 as a significant landmark : I don't think he mentioned the 1986 Harnoncourt at all.

But within the time constraints, this was exemplary.

Very happily listening to Mortensen now on Qobuz. The 1989 Bruggen is a version I've never listened to, must do so.

Didn't like JEGGER's DG recording then?

No! and I'm with him on that. I've never liked Gardiner's way with the big Bach works, tried them when they came out and all went back to the shop! Each time I hear extracts, they seem increasingly misconceived. It's very odd, because he seems to approach individual cantatas very differently - much of the 'Pilgrimage' cycle is marvellous.

[Richard Barrett]

No! and I'm with him on that. I've never liked Gardiner's way with the big Bach works, tried them when they came out and all went back to the shop! Each time I hear extracts, they seem increasingly misconceived. It's very odd, because he seems to approach individual cantatas very differently - much of the 'Pilgrimage' cycle is marvellous.

That's an interesting point of view. Do you think it's because the cantata recordings capture a live performance rather than being put together piecemeal in a studio?

Last night I listened to most of Parrott's Mass in B minor. Very impressive indeed. But more than anything else it made me realise that I could listen to this work almost endlessly.

[BBMmk2]

Hmmm, that's interesting Cali. Many thanks. I will have a listen again to the recommended version and the Andrew Parrott one as well.

[Nick Armstrong]

That's an interesting point of view. Do you think it's because the cantata recordings capture a live performance rather than being put together piecemeal in a studio?

Last night I listened to most of Parrott's Mass in B minor. Very impressive indeed. But more than anything else it made me realise that I could listen to this work almost endlessly.

Listening to the Parrott now, as it happens. Yes - if 'inexhaustible' ever applies to music, it applies to this piece.

Re: JEG - you may be right. Also it seems to me that he feels the need to make something "big" of the Mass and the Passions, which for him equates to making them more driven, theatrical, almost lurid. Nick Kenyon's word "relentless" seems about right to me. Whereas the cantatas with their more intimate feel bring out a different sort of music-making, and the music is allowed to speak for itself.