BaL 28.01.17 - Sibelius: Tapiola Op. 112

[MickyD]

For me, The Lemminkainen Suite ranks near the top of the list of Sibelius' compositions.

[ardcarp]

Oh - a bit too "Hello birds! Hello, twees!" gushing for me; and confused gushing at that: he made the point very clearly at the start that Finnish audiences regard the forest as a place of refuge and magical safety, but then kept passing favourable comments on performances he found "scary" - "to be listened to with the lights on" etc.

My thoughts exactly, Ferney. Given that this was an 'easy' BAL...its subject being a short-ish piece with no alternative versions....I was disappointed that Mr Mellor's main object was to assess Tapiola as a film score to his own personal Finnish Forest Fantasy.

[DracoM]

[vinteuil]

.

... this is not a work I know well; I have several versions here, which I like. I looked forward to this BAL as something from which I might learn. It was evident from early on that the reviewer had a predetermined view of what this work should 'be', and any version which didn't fit in with this view was criticized accordingly. I couldn't gather on what evidence our reviewer based his pretty intransigent view of the work: it appeared that if you accepted this, then everything followed - but it seemed to me that there might be other ways of understanding Tapiola which were not 'allowed'.

Altogether a bit limiting and disappointing. I don't think I need to add to my Karajans, Vänskä , Davis, Berglund, and Koussevitsky.

[jayne lee wilson]

I don't think there is a need to get the Segerstam recording. If anything, at least the Maazel, Gibson or Ashkenazy should do! :)

I think there's a serious need to get it for anyone Bbm - as I said in #26, it has outstanding sound and the performance finds that very elusive balance in this very elusive piece - between emptiness and intensity (the intensity of cold fire, not of Love and Death). Having just heard it again has only increased my admiration for it, and emphasised its pre-eminence in the catalogue. It's too easy for a conductor (especially an official great conductor with an official great orchestra) to overplay the fire, intensity and - too often - virtuosity, without conveying the emotionless gloom that lies all around; ohne Empfindung, the impassivity of natural phenomena.

One reason some listeners find Berglund too cool or affectless in his Sibelius (and this approach only became the more obvious through his cycles in Helsinki and with the COE) is precisely because he identified so closely with this aspect - temperamental and topographical - of the Finnish weltanschauung.

I'll try to hear this BaL later, but I must say I'm an admirer of Andrew Mellor, whose articles and reviews on Scandinavian music for the Gramophone have so often been a source of pleasure and insight. It was thanks to him that I discovered Aulis Sallinen's Symphonies, and his notes to the Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen series on Da Capo are excellent - a listening guide and a provocation.

[Sir Velo]

I think a little balance is called for here! The title, Tapiola makes it clear that this is one of Sibelius' tone poems - not, as this BAL made clear, JS' de facto 8th symphony! Actually, Andrew Mellor did explain his concept of the work's architecture, with his emphasis on Kajanus' pioneering recording as presumably having the composer's imprimatur. Moreover, I don't think Vints or the rest of us need to chuck our Karajan's yet; HvK was clearly high on the list of also rans, and good to hear honourable mentions for Berglund and Ashkenazy (even if it weren't the Philharmonia version in this listener's collection), and also for the recognition given to Beecham's prowess as a Sibelian.

[Petrushka]

A very enjoyable BaL in my opinion. As mentioned above, Tapiola isn't a work I know too well despite having a number of versions so this BaL was a chance to dig a bit deeper. His final choice made perfect sense but the one that caught my ear was Jukka-Pekka Saraste and the Finnish Radio SO.

[ardcarp]

I think a little balance is called for here! The title, Tapiola makes it clear that this is one of Sibelius' tone poems - not, as this BAL made clear, JS' de facto 8th symphony! Actually, Andrew Mellor did explain his concept of the work's architecture, with his emphasis on Kajanus' pioneering recording as presumably having the composer's imprimatur. Moreover, I don't think Vints or the rest of us need to chuck our Karajan's yet; HvK was clearly high on the list of also rans, and good to hear honourable mentions for Berglund and Ashkenazy (even if it weren't the Philharmonia version in this listener's collection), and also for the recognition given to Beecham's prowess as a Sibelian.

Fair points Sir V. I would have liked a little less talk of forests, and a little more about Sibelius's harmonic language. He lighted upon a soundscape using chunks of the whole-tone scale, meaning that there is an ever-present whiff of the tritone about Tapiola. I know that this might not help in making a choice, but a significant element of BAL is , for me anyway, being 'educated' about a work.

[Daniel]

I think a little balance is called for here! The title, Tapiola makes it clear that this is one of Sibelius' tone poems - not, as this BAL made clear, JS' de facto 8th symphony!

Indeed. I must say I found it hard to connect the criticisms here with the programme I was hearing. All his points seemed relevant to the score, not just airy fairy fantasising, and I thought the references to Alvar Aalto and the political status quo at the time of composition were interesting, adding a dimension to a possible understanding of the piece.
As Sir Velo says he was underlining the work's identity as a tone poem (as opposed to a possible symphony) and the comparison of forest/light etc with orchestral timbre/momentum, and how this was shaped by different performers thus seemed very germane to how he decided on his preferred recording.
I'm not surprised that sbdy might not like this or that BAL, just that this one attracted as much opprobrium it did.

His final choice made perfect sense but the one that caught my ear was Jukka-Pekka Saraste and the Finnish Radio SO.

Yes that sounded good, as did Ashkenazy and Beecham. The Maazel excerpt made me laugh, it sounded like Tapio had gone for bright red lipstick and Louis XIV wig that day, but I'm quite interested to hear the whole thing.

Strangely enough, that plagal ending always brings tears to my eyes, and the saddest major chord I've ever heard. It's tragic almost.

Thanks, I'll keep listening.

[Maclintick]

.

it seemed to me that there might be other ways of understanding Tapiola which were not 'allowed'.

I'm not at all sure that Andrew Mellor would insist that his personal take on one of the great masterpieces of 20th cent. music prohibited alternative understandings of the work as other than a "Finnish Forest Fantasy" replete with Aalto-designed woodland eco-retreats, but he argued persuasively for his final choice.

Revisiting the actual score of Tapiola, in which Sibelius displays a classical economy in terms of tempo indications & dynamics, far from the sort of micro-management indulged in by his great contemporary Mahler -- pace JLW's "ohne empfindung" which GM might have conceived but which JS never did -- & where he is fastidiously economical with the actualité of signalling anything other than instructions to the performers, the one blindingly obvious feature which leaps off the page are the accents over every single quaver of the theme ( as AM said, there's only one ! ) in its initial statement & in its later revisitations. At the outset Segerstam fails at the first hurdle, making little differentiation between this arresting opening phrase & the succeeding but perceptibly deflated iteration, after an interjection from the woodwind, brass & timps.

"Forest Fantasy" it may be on an impressionistic level, but in terms of emotional impact Tapiola appears to me -- & I readily concede that this is an entirely subjective view -- as a great expressionist psychodrama, a musical near-relative of Munch's The Scream, & a searing depiction of loneliness & psychological near-collapse, only partially redeemed by that B major ending.

[Petrushka]

"Forest Fantasy" it may be on an impressionistic level, but in terms of emotional impact Tapiola appears to me -- & I readily concede that this is an entirely subjective view -- as a great expressionist psychodrama, a musical near-relative of Munch's The Scream, & a searing depiction of loneliness & psychological near-collapse, only partially redeemed by that C major ending.

Closer to Schoeberg's Erwartung, perhaps?

[Maclintick]

Closer to Schoeberg's Erwartung, perhaps?

In some sense, maybe, but Tapiola isn't a monodrama, though another of JS's tone poems Luonnotar might be regarded as such. What I meant was that the emotional states Tapiola evokes in this listener are extreme, & frightening.

[BBMmk2]

I think there's a serious need to get it for anyone Bbm - as I said in #26, it has outstanding sound and the performance finds that very elusive balance in this very elusive piece - between emptiness and intensity (the intensity of cold fire, not of Love and Death). Having just heard it again has only increased my admiration for it, and emphasised its pre-eminence in the catalogue. It's too easy for a conductor (especially an official great conductor with an official great orchestra) to overplay the fire, intensity and - too often - virtuosity, without conveying the emotionless gloom that lies all around; ohne Empfindung, the impassivity of natural phenomena.

One reason some listeners find Berglund too cool or affectless in his Sibelius (and this approach only became the more obvious through his cycles in Helsinki and with the COE) is precisely because he identified so closely with this aspect - temperamental and topographical - of the Finnish weltanschauung.

I'll try to hear this BaL later, but I must say I'm an admirer of Andrew Mellor, whose articles and reviews on Scandinavian music for the Gramophone have so often been a source of pleasure and insight. It was thanks to him that I discovered Aulis Sallinen's Symphonies, and his notes to the Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen series on Da Capo are excellent - a listening guide and a provocation.

Many thanks, JLW for your post, as usual, being very astute in your writing. Aulis Sallinen's music I haven't explored very much.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

What I meant was that the emotional states Tapiola evokes in this listener are extreme, & frightening.

This is interesting, Macl, in that it contradicts what was at first suggested were the "emotional states" the composer intended to evoke. Given the extremity of your reaction - and the reviewer's own subsequent statements of his own sensations of fear - do you think the composer failed to communicate the moods he wanted his listeners to experience?

[BBMmk2]

This is interesting, Macl, in that it contradicts what was at first suggested were the "emotional states" the composer intended to evoke. Given the extremity of your reaction - and the reviewer's own subsequent statements of his own sensations of fear - do you think the composer failed to communicate the moods he wanted his listeners to experience?

I never thought of Tapiola to be scary music? Interesting!