BaL 14.01.17 - Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 4 in F minor

[Beef Oven!]

It's not only me, then! I seem to do it nearly everytime.... provided it's a BaL that I'm interested in, in the first place, that is... and quite a few fall into this category, so I can pop to the shops instead!

Yes, it must be something of interest in the first place. About 30% of them in my case, I’d say. But they’re all quite fun in their own way.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's not only me, then! I seem to do it nearly everytime.... provided it's a BaL that I'm interested in, in the first place, that is... and quite a few fall into this category, so I can pop to the shops instead!

Yes, it must be something of interest in the first place. About 30% of them in my case, I’d say. But they’re all quite fun in their own way.

[Barbirollians]

Just played the Abbado - forgotten how good it was - surprised indeed it was overlooked .

[Pianoman]

Hmmm... because of his training as a viol player and his grounding in 'baroque style' he is treating bars 3 and 4 each as a self-contained 'cell' that doesn't use the last note of each bar (F) as upbeats that join those bars together over the barlines. This is a way, a somewhat wilful one, of standing 'tradition' on its head by simply playing a very well-known work 'differently'... 'shock/horror'

Yep, I think you're right that's what he's doing...Well, on repeated listening it could (would) become b****y annoying...I'll stick to the two Ms - Mravinsky and Maazel (VPO) with a dash of Ashkenazy's rather fine Kingsway Hall jobbie..)

[Tony Halstead]

Yep, I think you're right that's what he's doing...Well, on repeated listening it could (would) become b****y annoying...I'll stick to the two Ms - Mravinsky and Maazel (VPO) with a dash of Ashkenazy's rather fine Kingsway Hall jobbie..)

I am quite 'gutted' that RC didn't mention the incandescent Barbirolli / Hallé recording... 'Mercury' recording team, Manchester 'Free Trade Hall' ( wonderful acoustic...much better than the Bridgwater Hall)

[pastoralguy]

I had a cassette tape of Barbirolli and the Halle playing Tchaikovsky 4 that was on EMI. The string portamenti in the first movement is really OTT but, by goodness, it's well played. Iirc, there was a rehearsal segment with Barbirolli shouting 'even if you can't play all the notes just play SOMETHING - MAKE A NOISE!!!!'

Fantastic!

[Barbirollians]

I had a cassette tape of Barbirolli and the Halle playing Tchaikovsky 4 that was on EMI. The string portamenti in the first movement is really OTT but, by goodness, it's well played. Iirc, there was a rehearsal segment with Barbirolli shouting 'even if you can't play all the notes just play SOMETHING - MAKE A NOISE!!!!'

Fantastic!

On the famous Monitor programme with Barbirolli he is conducting the RNCM orchestra in Tchaikovsky 4 and how he inspires them to play out of their skins .

[BBMmk2]

Quite often with BaLs, I’m captured by something other than the winner and will often buy that instead. Of course the whole business is entirely subjective - but quite a lot of fun!

Quiter agree, Beefy! I have formed what kind of interpretation I like from this work, as with others we know, and from experience, my favourites are: Mravinsky, Jansons, HvK(Ist one) Jurowski - LPO, and Litton, oh Lenny too! :)

[visualnickmos]

One of Karajan's was favourably mentioned; is it by chance this one? I somehow think not, but I'm unclear......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Pathetique-Pyotr-Ilyich/dp/B000NPCMJ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1484472782&sr=1-1&keywords=tchaikovsky+karajan

I couldn't find an earlier (early 1960s) version....

PS I recently played Ashkenazy's set of 3-6. Really quite stunning recordings and performances.

[Petrushka]

One of Karajan's was favourably mentioned; is it by chance this one? I somehow think not, but I'm unclear......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Pathetique-Pyotr-Ilyich/dp/B000NPCMJ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1484472782&sr=1-1&keywords=tchaikovsky+karajan

I couldn't find an earlier (early 1960s) version.....

Karajan recorded the 4th in 1953 with the Philharmonia and again, in stereo, with the BPO in 1960. Both recordings are included in this box:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mussorgsky-Tchaikovsky-Balakirev-Stravinsky-Remastered/dp/B00IRHGY8A/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1484473394&sr=1-9&keywords=karajan+remastered

[kernelbogey]

Karajan recorded the 4th in 1953 with the Philharmonia and again, in stereo, with the BPO in 1960. Both recordings are included in this box:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mussorgsky-...jan+remastered

I'm pretty sure Rob favoured the 1960.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

IIRC, the Karajan recording chosen by RC was the 1966 DG version:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaikovsky-Symphony-No-4-Swa-x/dp/B0073Y12CQ

... also available in the big DG "Karajan: the 60s" box.

[BBMmk2]

Yes, most certainly the 1960. :)

[kernelbogey]

Listening to Fischer now... Very fine, IMO!

I notice a fairly short break between III & IV - and recall some conductors start IV with barely a beat between. Is this in the score? Or a matter of interpretation? If the latter then it's an expression of the opinion that the fundamental 'story' of the piece is pessimistic: never mind folk songs, passing bands and a glass of wine, life is fate...! (My interpretation, too, on first hearing it live, aged 16!)

[Petrushka]

I'm pretty sure Rob favoured the 1960.

Karajan then recorded the symphony again for DG with the BPO in 1966 and 1977 and for EMI in 1971. His final recording of the 4th was with the VPO for DG in 1985.

I have all of them....