BaL 14.01.17 - Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 4 in F minor

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Might have a go at Lenny's recording but why oh why not Lorin Maazel's with the VPO on Decca?

I wondered that - especially as he spent time with the later recording (quite rightly pointing out the conductor's ineffectual and misplaced tinkerings).

Years ago during the Brighton Festival, it must've been, I saw Rozhdestvensky and the BBC SO do Prok's 5th and Tchaik's 4th at The dome. Quite a concert that, imo.

Rozhdestvensky was the conductor in my first Live Tchaik #4 (in fact, I think my only one except as a performer).

I'm not at all sure that I particularly like this work, but the ones that stop me from being certain are those that are the more dry-eyed and "literal": Szell, Mravinsky, Karajan ... and Muti. I disliked the interventionists, and found the revered Mengelberg hideous! I do wonder if it was performances as over-acted as this that caused so many of the negative comments about the composer in the mid-20th Century?

[Barbirollians]

The Mengelberg verged on the hysterical as if he was conducting for that horribly overwrought film The Music Lovers with Richard Chamberlain and Glenda Jackson

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Mengelberg verged on the hysterical as if he was conducting for that horribly overwrought film The Music Lovers with Richard Chamberlain and Glenda Jackson

- I think you're being very generous with the "verged".

[vinteuil]

I'm not at all sure that I particularly like this work, but the ones that stop me from being certain are those that are the more dry-eyed and "literal": Szell, Mravinsky, Karajan ... and Muti.

... 'stop you from being certain' - certain that you like or dislike this work? Do you like the dry-eyed and 'literal' or do you dislike them?

[rauschwerk]

I do wonder if it was performances as over-acted as this that caused so many of the negative comments about the composer in the mid-20th Century?

And I wonder if homophobia had a lot to do with them.

[Beef Oven!]

And I wonder if homophobia had a lot to do with them.

Most unlikely.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And I wonder if homophobia had a lot to do with them.

I doubt it. When I was a music student at the beginning of the '70s, it was just fashionable to deride Tchaikovsky, merely because so many people liked his music.

[Beef Oven!]

I doubt it. When I was a music student at the beginning of the '70s, it was just fashionable to deride Tchaikovsky, merely because so many people liked his music.

Seems to have always been like that, still is IMV.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... 'stop you from being certain' - certain that you like or dislike this work? Do you like the dry-eyed and 'literal' or do you dislike them?

"I'm not at all sure that I particularly like this work, but the ones that stop me from being certain"

"The recordings that stop me from being certain/sure that I dislike this work" (You're right - the syntax was unclear.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I doubt it. When I was a music student at the beginning of the '70s, it was just fashionable to deride Tchaikovsky, merely because so many people liked his music.

Is there any evidence for this?

[Petrushka]

I won't be investing. I've enough Tchaik 4's to keep me happy. Moreover, a recent listen to Fischer's Pathetique left me distinctly underwhelmed with there being a lack of drama and passion plus recorded sound that blunted it still further.

[kernelbogey]

Ivan Fischer as one might have expected(as he is clearly one of RC's favourite conductors ) . Interestingly, though , I have just looked up the Gramophone review of that recording to find it was by RC and in which he states

"Mravinsky remains my first stereo port of call for the symphony, but Fischer has enough that is meaningful and individual to justify a secure place among top digital recommendations."

I wonder what changed his mind - was it an instruction to choose a modern recording if at all possible ?

It seemed to me that he was steering towards Mravinksy as his choice, and the final 'paragraph' choosing Fischer sounded almost like an afterthought. (But likely recording quality had to take first place.)

This symphony was the first I ever heard live - BSO under Charlie Groves, Mr Hornspieler in the back row - and I still find it a terrifying work, 55 or so years later!

[Pianoman]

Just had a quick listen to this on Spotty - what on earth's he doing with the opening horn call's phrasing...? End of the second bar, a quick gap (or stutter...)..sound most odd to me, but as usual excellent playing and recording, certainly better than what I heard of his Pathetique.

[rauschwerk]

I doubt it. When I was a music student at the beginning of the '70s, it was just fashionable to deride Tchaikovsky, merely because so many people liked his music.

I'm talking about books I read in the early 60s which were perhaps published 10,20,30 years before that. As I recall (dimly I admit), the word 'hysterical' seemed to crop up rather a lot. What you describe was also the case, of course.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... what on earth's he doing with the opening horn call's phrasing...? End of the second bar, a quick gap (or stutter...)..sound most odd to me, but as usual excellent playing and recording,

My thoughts exactly.