BaL 14.01.17 - Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 4 in F minor

**pastoralguy** · 06-01-17, 12:07

This was the first symphony I ever heard in a concert and it changed my life forever. On that occasion, it was the BBCSSO conducted by Christopher Seaman in the Usher Hall, Edinburgh, on June 4th 1977. I was absolutely blown away and, of course, wanted to get a record. So, Saturday morning saw me heading down to Rae Mac's to find one. Of course, as a schoolboy, I was aiming for the lowest price so left with Sir Alexander Gibson's rendition with the SNO. (£1.15, iirc). To say I played it into oblivion would be an understatement and I got to know it pretty well. The friend I had gone to the concert with was a bit richer and he bought the Mravrinsky/Leningrad set on a mid price DG. He kindly let me make a tape of it and that too was played hundreds of times. Eventually, my birthday came round and my grandfather gave me a five pound note with which I bought the Karajan version. That too was played a lot although, more often than not, it was Gibson and the SNO that I turned to.

I suppose that if I were to give my younger self advice it would be that I should have been investigating other repertoire rather than a few works over and over but I had no-one to ask for advice and simply became more adventurous as I went along. Alas, Tchaikovsky's fourth symphony is no longer on my 'must hear' list but I do get caught up in it whenever I hear it.

**ahinton** · 06-01-17, 14:43

Mon Dieu! Imagine writing a symphony and getting at least 115 recordings of it!...

**BBMmk2** · 06-01-17, 15:27

MFantastic! I love this one, most indeedy! Now off the top, I have Mariss Jansons(Oslo PO), Andrew Litton(Bournemouth SO), Muti(Philedelphia), Gergiev(VPO), Jurowski(LPO).

Incidentally, how do you do musical notation on here?

**Beef Oven!** · 06-01-17, 16:44

Crikey! Alpensinfonie must’ve been up all night compiling that list!

**Richard Barrett** · 06-01-17, 17:08

Originally posted by pastoralguy View Post

This was the first symphony I ever heard in a concert

Likewise. But unlike you I then didn't hear it for many years, in fact not until the Mravinsky recordings came out on CD and I bought them to reacquaint myself with the music. It's not something I listen to very often, but it's the only piece by Tchaikovsky I've ever had any time for. Apart from Mravinsky I have the Jos van Immerseel recording, and Celibidache, which make for three very different views in some ways, but in others not so different, in that none attempts to produce a gleamingly polished product with everything smoothly and predictably phrased and balanced.

**pastoralguy** · 06-01-17, 17:21

Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post

Likewise. But unlike you I then didn't hear it for many years, in fact not until the Mravinsky recordings came out on CD and I bought them to reacquaint myself with the music. It's not something I listen to very often, but it's the only piece by Tchaikovsky I've ever had any time for. Apart from Mravinsky I have the Jos van Immerseel recording, and Celibidache, which make for three very different views in some ways, but in others not so different, in that none attempts to produce a gleamingly polished product with everything smoothly and predictably phrased and balanced.

Sorry to hear you have a low opinion of the great Russian composer, Richard. One of my top five composers.

**richardfinegold** · 06-01-17, 17:54

It wasn't the first Symphony I ever heard but otherwise my experience with it is similar to that of PG. Also around 1977 Bernstein made a recording with the NYP and they performed it live on our Public Television Network. It was overwhelming--Lenny leaps at the start of the finale, falls off the podium on his back, and scramble to stand back up as fast as he can, and the players looked as if they were trying not to split their pants laughing.
That recording was played to death, followed by Monteux and Boston, each probably at least a 100 times.
I don't find much time now for it, having become over familiar with it, but that Bernstein would be the one that I would take to the great internet forum in the sky

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 06-01-17, 19:22

This was a Tchaikovsky symphony I arrived at relatively late. For many years I much preferred 2 & 5, though I had an LP of no. 4 that got an occasional spin.

When I was 17, I borrowed Beecham's recording, which changed everything, and is still a favourite version. The VPO/Maazel recording was the first stereo recording I heard on my new hi-fi system in 1970. I was bowled over by this, and subsequent acquisitions (Barbirolli, Mravinsky, Furtwangler and Rozhdestvensky) have done nothing to displace this.

**gurnemanz** · 06-01-17, 20:32

My first recording was Szell with LSO on a Decca World Of The Great Classics LP for 99p. Thinking myself at the time - 1972 - not to be a big Tchaikovsky fan I had hardly any of his music and was prompted by EG in the Gramophone describing it as a great performance which had been produced by John Culshaw and which Szell had repressed for unknown reasons. I later got a CD on the Penguins Classics label which confirms its status.

**Once Was 4** · 06-01-17, 20:38

Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post

My first recording was Szell with LSO on a Decca World Of The Great Classics LP for 99p. Thinking myself at the time - 1972 - not to be a big Tchaikovsky fan I had hardly any of his music and was prompted by EG in the Gramophone describing it as a great performance which had been produced by John Culshaw and which Szell had hitherto repressed for unknown reasons. I later got a CD on the Penguins Classics label which confirms its status.

Am I right in saying that, for some reason, Szell tried to prevent this recording being issued? The Bass trombonist on it is the legendary Frank Mathison, still playing in various groups around Yorkshire despite being well into his 80s.

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 06-01-17, 20:38

In my experience, people who don't like Tchaikovsky's music particularly dislike the finale of the 4th symphony - superficially a crash-bang-wallop movement. Whilst there are moments of this, it's only part of the story. Consider the folksong second subject and the inspired way way it's developed. It's interesting to note how the composer has "westernised" the melody, changing the 3-bar phrases of the original to 4-bar phrases - From "Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah" to "Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, ting ting, Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, ting ting"

**BBMmk2** · 06-01-17, 20:42

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

In my experience, people who don't like Tchaikovsky's music particularly dislike the finale of the 4th symphony - superficially a crash-bang-wallop movement. Whilst there are moments of this, it's only part of the story. Consider the folksong second subject and the inspired way way it's developed. It's interesting to note how the composer has "westernised" the melody, changing the 3-bar phrases of the original to 4-bar phrases - From "Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah" to "Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, ting ting, Da-da-da-da-dah da-da-dah dah, ting ting"

This is where music notation on here would come in handy!!!

**ferneyhoughgeliebte** · 06-01-17, 20:44

Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post

My first recording was Szell with LSO on a Decca World Of The Great Classics LP for 99p. Thinking myself at the time - 1972 - not to be a big Tchaikovsky fan I had hardly any of his music and was prompted by EG in the Gramophone describing it as a great performance which had been produced by John Culshaw and which Szell had repressed for unknown reasons. I later got a CD on the Penguins Classics label which confirms its status.

Snap in all respects, except that I bought my LP copy a couple of years later.

I have Karajan x3 and Mravinsky in addition to the Szell, so won't be looking for another - it's my least favourite of the final three. (Not, incidentally because of the Finale, which is exhilarating in these recordings - although the return of the Fate motif needs very careful handling to keep the sniggers at bay - but the Second Movement. I just don't like the tune - and it gets heard rather a lot!)

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 06-01-17, 21:00

Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post

This is where music notation on here would come in handy!!!

Fair comment! Point made.

BaL 14.01.17 - Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 4 in F minor

BaL 14.01.17 - Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. 4 in F minor

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