BaL 31.12.16 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 3 in D minor

[ahinton]

Too late, you’ve already set your stall out based on prejudice.

Based on an educated guess.

If you have now listened to it as you claim

I "claim" to have done this because I have done it.

you merely appear to be reinforcing your prejudiced view

No; M. Marthé's work has reinforced my suspicions without any help from me.

Where did you hear it from, by the way?

I was sent a copy.

[Beef Oven!]

88 messages and Tom hasn't uttered a word.

Bring it on.

This is a bit too cryptic for me! Can you clarify?

[Barbirollians]

Ah, like the Haas version of the 8th, eh?

Perhaps that is why I prefer the Nowak especially when Giulini is conducting .

[Barbirollians]

Based on an educated guess.


I "claim" to have done this because I have done it.


No; M. Marthé's work has reinforced my suspicions without any help from me.


I was sent a copy.

Don't feed the troll - he is incapable of playing the ball rather than the player hence the brilliance of the ignore function.

[teamsaint]

I wonder why fewer and fewer people contribute regularly to this forum?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This is a bit too cryptic for me! Can you clarify?

I understood Alison to refer to the fact that the Thread has generated many responses even though the Mr Ibraginova hasn't uttered a word yet.

(Already far more comments than generated on the whole of the Golden Girl of the West Thread. I'm rather proud of the Forum for this fact.)

[ahinton]

Don't feed the troll - he is incapable of playing the ball rather than the player hence the brilliance of the ignore function.

I do think - value judgements and opinions on the results aside - that what M. Marthé has done in both 3 and 9 is something materially different to the various editions and revisions to Bruckner's symphonies before it; the final of 9 in his hands strikes me as rather more akin to Brahms' Piano Quintet in G minor as Schönberged by a quite different kind of master orchestrator, i.e. an orchestral arrangement of Brahms' work accomplished in a manner quite other than the way that Brahms himself would have done it had he wished to orchestrate the work, yet at the same time without introducing actual musical material to that original text (and now I'm perhaps being kind about it); somehow, though, I could not bring myself to imagine that Schönberg would ever have thought, let alone spoken or written, of the outcome as "Brahms reloaded".

Whilst I realise that this thread's about Bruckner 3, I await with interest BeefO!'s thoughts about the assessment of Marthé's Bruckner 9 finale that occurs towards the end of Gijs van er Meijden's essay on that finale, as published on the website to which he has himself drawn useful attention, especially in the context of having given the subject considerable attention up to that point.

[Beef Oven!]

Don't feed the troll - he is incapable of playing the ball rather than the player hence the brilliance of the ignore function.

Why do you think it’s ok to repeatedly call me a troll? When I implied that you are an underachiever, you formally complained about me. You seem to have double standards.

[Beef Oven!]

Whilst I realise that this thread's about Bruckner 3, I await with interest BeefO!'s thoughts about the assessment of Marthé's Bruckner 9 finale that occurs towards the end of Gijs van er Meijden's essay on that finale, as published on the website to which he has himself drawn useful attention, especially in the context of having given the subject considerable attention up to that point.

Don’t hold your breath! I struggle with the 4 movement 9. Coincidentally, last week I started listening to the 4th movement on its own in order to try to get my ears and head around it. It actually helped doing that. But I think it will take me at least another year to get to grips with it.

I haven’t read the essay that you linked, and I doubt I will any time soon. Marthe’s 4 movement 9 is ok, but there’s so much better out there. I actually like Johannes Wildner’s performance on Naxos (but it’s Rattle’s that I’ve been listening to).

[verismissimo]

I wonder why fewer and fewer people contribute regularly to this forum?

1. Continuous repetition of prejudices.

2. Closed-mindedness.

3. Lack of respect for others.

All three of these inter-related issues seem to be present in this thread, as in so many others.

[Beef Oven!]

I understood Alison to refer to the fact that the Thread has generated many responses even though the Mr Ibraginova hasn't uttered a word yet.

(Already far more comments than generated on the whole of the Golden Girl of the West Thread. I'm rather proud of the Forum for this fact.)

Ah yes, it’s obvious now! Thanks.

I think this should be a 2 hour BaL. Some BaL’s should be 2 hours, given the passage of time and the sheer number of available recordings of classical music nowadays.

[Bryn]

... I actually like Johannes Wildner’s performance on Naxos (but it’s Rattle’s that I’ve been listening to).

Wildner used a much earlier completion, based on far less complete sketches, than Rattle had to hand. That said, I did rather take to the Wildner when I first heard it soon after its release. The Marthé, to me, falls into much the same bracket as Matthew Herbert's 'Mahler X Recomposed'.

[Beef Oven!]

Wildner used a much earlier completion, based on far less complete sketches, than Rattle had to hand. That said, I did rather take to the Wildner when I first heard it soon after its release. The Marthé, to me, falls into much the same bracket as Matthew Herbert's 'Mahler X Recomposed'.

Thanks Bryn - I’m glad to hear that you took to the Wildner, you have a much better better grip on these things than me, I only have instincts to rely on. Pretty underrated is our man Wildner, IMV.

Back to B3, Wildner’s 2 CD set of the 1877 and 1889 versions is exceptional, especially the performance of the 1899 version. I doubt that it will get much attention on the forthcoming BaL.

[ahinton]

Don’t hold your breath! I struggle with the 4 movement 9. Coincidentally, last week I started listening to the 4th movement on its own in order to try to get my ears and head around it. It actually helped doing that. But I think it will take me at least another year to get to grips with it.

I haven’t read the essay that you linked, and I doubt I will any time soon. Marthe’s 4 movement 9 is ok, but there’s so much better out there. I actually like Johannes Wildner’s performance on Naxos (but it’s Rattle’s that I’ve been listening to).

Wildner's (which I have) has indeed much going for it but Rattle's has the obvious advantage of there being more Bruckner in it that in any other version to date.

It's up to you whether and/or when you read that essay but I commend you to it purely because it takes the subject of that finale very seriously and, at the end, compares available recorded versions.

[ahinton]

Thanks Bryn - I’m glad to hear that you took to the Wildner, you have a much better better grip on these things than me, I only have instincts to rely on.

I hope that one man's "instincts" are not analogous to another man's "prejudices" and "pre-judgements"; the music's far more important than to risk accommodating such things...