BaL 31.12.16 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 3 in D minor

[BBMmk2]

Is it to do with key signatures, I have been thinking of late? (Have I too much time on my hands at the moment to be thinking of such things, I ask myself?) I have been thinking about the key of D minor. Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 3rd and 9th, Mahler's 3rd, etc...Great works. Yes. I know other symphonies are too, in different keys but D minor, seems significant, somehow?

[mathias broucek]

My TDK MA-XG tape has "Barbican Live 2/96" handwritten on it (not '92 as I wrote above - my note is right, my memory wrong...).
I'm fascinated to hear that he did this repeatedly. Scroll down to see Berky's note here -
https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnot...graphichorror/

Thanks for that, Jayne. At the Proms the explanation was "due to the tempo relationships...".

[pastoralguy]

Is it to do with key signatures, I have been thinking of late? (Have I too much time on my hands at the moment to be thinking of such things, I ask myself?) I have been thinking about the key of D minor. Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 3rd and 9th, Mahler's 3rd, etc...Great works. Yes. I know other symphonies are too, in different keys but D minor, seems significant, somehow?

Mozart's Requiem, the Franck symphony and Brahms' first piano concerto to name three other works. As Nigel Tuffnal says in 'Spinal Tap', ' there's something about the key of d minor that makes people weep instantly. I'm very influenced by composers such as Mozart and Bach. This is a kind of Mach piece. It's called 'lick my love pump'.

[Sir Velo]

Is it to do with key signatures, I have been thinking of late? (Have I too much time on my hands at the moment to be thinking of such things, I ask myself?) I have been thinking about the key of D minor. Beethoven's 9th, Bruckner's 3rd and 9th, Mahler's 3rd, etc...Great works. Yes. I know other symphonies are too, in different keys but D minor, seems significant, somehow?

Ivan Hewett got here before you, BBM!

[BBMmk2]

Ivan Hewett got here before you, BBM!

Well, at the moment we are talking about similar stuff! Just had my cogwheels working overtime! But like Ivor Hewitt said, particular key signatures do signify different depths of the human psyche.

[BBMmk2]

Mozart's Requiem, the Franck symphony and Brahms' first piano concerto to name three other works. As Nigel Tuffnal says in 'Spinal Tap', ' there's something about the key of d minor that makes people weep instantly. I'm very influenced by composers such as Mozart and Bach. This is a kind of Mach piece. It's called 'lick my love pump'.

J S Bach had a good way with key signatures, like D minor.

[vinteuil]

J S Bach had a good way with key signatures, like D minor.

... he also had a pretty nifty way with C maj c min C#maj c#min D maj d min Eb maj eb min E maj e min F maj f min F# maj f#min G maj g min G# maj g#min A maj a min Bb maj bbmin B maj b min ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But like Ivor Hewitt said, particular key signatures do signify different depths of the human psyche.

I've never believed statements like this - if it were true, then we have to try and reconcile Bach's d minor with Mahler's as showing the same "depths of the human psyche" in spite of being different pitches.

[Bryn]

... he also had a pretty nifty way with C maj c min C#maj c#min D maj d min Eb maj eb min E maj e min F maj f min F# maj f#min G maj g min G# maj g#min A maj a min Bb maj bbmin B maj b min ...

Indeed, though Bach's D minor might today be thought of more as C# minor, no?

Oops. Should have checked for new messages before hitting the post button.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Indeed, though Bach's D minor might today be thought of more as C# minor, no?

[Barbirollians]

'NEUFASSUNG" means simply "new edition", that is to say JPM's own new edition, nothing more. No specious or implied authority is conveyed or intended by the terminology used on abruckner.com.
John Berky's lifelong mission and obsession is to compile a library, a database of literally all the Bruckner performances and recorded versions or editions, of whatever dubious provenance, he can find. Away from the discography, Berky has even catalogued a digitised FM radio tape of my own, made from a Radio 3 broadcast in 1992. John asked me to send it to him because Colin Davis reversed the order of the inner movements of No.7, placing the scherzo second, as he had done on an earlier Orfeo Bavarian recording which John listed in his section on Brucknerian releases' misdemeanours ("Discographic Horrors") and which I'd written to John about. No-one can adduce any authority or precedent for this reversal, no more than they could for Marthe's various spatchcockings. It is listed there because it exists, nothing more. Note too that in the notes to Marthe's recording of the 9th Symphony, it says simply "finale composed by Marthe". It is a listing, not some implied approval.

As for someone calling himself "Bernard Michael O'Hanlon" whose tedious verbal circuses can be found footnoting many an Amazon listing and which I've long since stopped bothering to read, one can only say that his prose style is every bit as self-regarding as the conducting style of Jan Peter Marthe, and quite as likely to obscure or lead away from any attempt at musical truth, insight, honesty or integrity on whatever level of listening or scholarship, Brucknerian or otherwise.
His description of Robert Simpson's comments on the 3rd Symphony as calling for "conflation" are of course a grotesque, self-justifying misrepresentation. As anyone who had actually read the revised version of Simpson's book would know for themselves.

Bravo the man described as Sir Les Patterson by someone on here in the past is a buffoon with a persecution complex for the recordings of Claudio Abbado .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Bravo the man described as Sir Les Patterson by someone on here in the past is a buffoon with a persecution complex for the recordings of Claudio Abbado .

This is all going over my head.

[Barbirollians]

This is all going over my head.

The Amazon reviewer in question cited as being a good reason for buying this disputed recording . Rather like jumping off a cliff on the advice of an idiot .

[Beef Oven!]

The Amazon reviewer in question cited as being a good reason for buying this disputed recording . Rather like jumping off a cliff on the advice of an idiot .

It’s gone over your head too, if you think that Bernard Michael O’Hanlon’s smashing review is a reason for buying this excellent performance of a fascinating recent edition of Bruckner’s symphony #3.

[Beef Oven!]

Two obvious questions:
What do you think Bruckner would have made of the JP Marthe "Neufassung", given Bruckner's own, lifelong efforts to define or refine his own text and his own "vision", and his bequeathing of his Autograph Manuscripts of the Original Versions to the Vienna Imperial Library, with instructions for his engraver to use them for future editions?

Ans = Bruckner would have loved it! I can just see him now, rushing up to Maestro Marthe with a tray of steaming hot doughnuts!