BaL 31.12.16 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 3 in D minor

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  • Beef Oven!
    Ex-member
    • Sep 2013
    • 18147

    I had quite a Brucknerthreeathon last night. Skrowczewski, Haitink and Sinopoli - I’ll talk about the latter, especially since Petrushka asked for my views!

    First thoughts on one listen.

    Getting the edition/version question swiftly out of the way - Sinopoli uses the 1877 version with the coda added to the scherzo as per Novak.

    The recording quality is very good. Softer focus than BH, SS et al, with the slightest 'overhang' - nothing huge like some cathedral recordings but discernible, and more than with most venues. Definitely adds to the enjoyment of the music. For me it’s perfect, a real bonus that I couldn’t have expected. I have not read the booklet yet, it may cite the recording venue.

    To my ears there are no Sinopoli idiosyncrasies in this performance, so those who are less Sinopoli-tolerant need not worry. This symphony, IMV, sometimes comes across a bit 'clunky’ with climaxes and calmer passages coming together in a slightly abrupt manner. Sinopoli manages to get a far more balanced delivery, without it being in any way repressed.

    I would say that it is a performance that allows the drama in the music to come through unforced, albeit at the sake of some of the mystery that say, Karajan achieves.

    The adagio is beautiful. Sensitive, but not sentimental. At this moment in time, I would say it’s my favourite performance of the adagio.

    Sinopoli has a total grasp of the landler in the scherzo and is one of the most dance-like deliveries of this Austrian speciality that I’ve heard - not bad for an Italian (although he was born in Venice, not too far from Austria and a place that always figured in the Austro-Hungarian Empire!).

    The scherzo’s coda is white-hot and could be used as an exemplar for it’s justification.

    To my ears, Sinopoli achieves a molten-lava flow of the music, white-hot and sensitive where necessary.

    It’s hard to explain why I sense this - there is such interplay between the different sections of the brass and between the various groups of instruments that I got a sense that the musicians were first and foremost listening to one-another, playing to one-another. Especially in the outer movements.

    Everything else that is good about this music, is down to Bruckner!

    Those are my first thoughts, based on one listen.

    I’m very glad I bought this recording.

    Warning! I am a highly subjective, emotional, instinctive Bruckner and Sinopoli fan!

    Warning #2 Sinopoli is wearing a hideous jumper on the cover!

    Comment

    • Barbirollians
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 11752

      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
      159 posts, 2 day before the BaL broadcast. My word, you have all been having fun on a thread I've mostly ignored during my week of house/cat sitting in West Yorkshire, with only an iPhone to keep in touch with the forum.

      As I've said before, I'm not a great Bruckner fan, but these BaL broadcasts can help to overcome deficiencies like mine, so I'm looking forward to 9.30 a.m. on Saturday. In the meantime, I'm going to spend this evening listening to the VPO/Böhm recording.
      What did you think of it ? For all its renown I have to admit finding it rather boring unlike Jochum's Bavarian RSO recording which is still available in the DG Collectors Edition EA and is missing from your list .

      Comment

      • Eine Alpensinfonie
        Host
        • Nov 2010
        • 20573

        Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
        . . . Jochum's Bavarian RSO recording which is still available in the DG Collectors Edition EA and is missing from your list .
        Sorted

        I did find it rather boring (as I often do with this conductor) despite beautiful playing and recorded sound. Hopefully, Saturday's broadcast
        will remedy that.

        Comment

        • P. G. Tipps
          Full Member
          • Jun 2014
          • 2978

          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
          I had quite a Brucknerthreeathon last night. Skrowczewski, Haitink and Sinopoli - I’ll talk about the latter, especially since Petrushka asked for my views!

          First thoughts on one listen.

          Getting the edition/version question swiftly out of the way - Sinopoli uses the 1877 version with the coda added to the scherzo as per Novak.

          The recording quality is very good. Softer focus than BH, SS et al, with the slightest 'overhang' - nothing huge like some cathedral recordings but discernible, and more than with most venues. Definitely adds to the enjoyment of the music. For me it’s perfect, a real bonus that I couldn’t have expected. I have not read the booklet yet, it may cite the recording venue.

          To my ears there are no Sinopoli idiosyncrasies in this performance, so those who are less Sinopoli-tolerant need not worry. This symphony, IMV, sometimes comes across a bit 'clunky’ with climaxes and calmer passages coming together in a slightly abrupt manner. Sinopoli manages to get a far more balanced delivery, without it being in any way repressed.

          I would say that it is a performance that allows the drama in the music to come through unforced, albeit at the sake of some of the mystery that say, Karajan achieves.

          The adagio is beautiful. Sensitive, but not sentimental. At this moment in time, I would say it’s my favourite performance of the adagio.

          Sinopoli has a total grasp of the landler in the scherzo and is one of the most dance-like deliveries of this Austrian speciality that I’ve heard - not bad for an Italian (although he was born in Venice, not too far from Austria and a place that always figured in the Austro-Hungarian Empire!).

          The scherzo’s coda is white-hot and could be used as an exemplar for it’s justification.

          To my ears, Sinopoli achieves a molten-lava flow of the music, white-hot and sensitive where necessary.

          It’s hard to explain why I sense this - there is such interplay between the different sections of the brass and between the various groups of instruments that I got a sense that the musicians were first and foremost listening to one-another, playing to one-another. Especially in the outer movements.

          Everything else that is good about this music, is down to Bruckner!

          Those are my first thoughts, based on one listen.

          I’m very glad I bought this recording.

          Warning! I am a highly subjective, emotional, instinctive Bruckner and Sinopoli fan!

          Warning #2 Sinopoli is wearing a hideous jumper on the cover!
          Interesting thoughts, Beefy! I do like that add-on to the scherzo in the 1877 version.

          I have an old self-recorded cassette tape somewhere of GS conducting the Third at a live concert in London which must be about 30 years old! I must look it out and see if it's still playable.

          I've long been fascinated about how top Italian conductors seem to take to Bruckner to a greater or lesser degree. There's Abbado, Chailly. Muti. Luisi. Giulini, Gatti and of course Sinopoli himself ... and maybe we can also half-include Barbirolli ... ?

          Comment

          • Petrushka
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 12309

            Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
            I had quite a Brucknerthreeathon last night. Skrowczewski, Haitink and Sinopoli - I’ll talk about the latter, especially since Petrushka asked for my views!

            First thoughts on one listen.

            Getting the edition/version question swiftly out of the way - Sinopoli uses the 1877 version with the coda added to the scherzo as per Novak.

            The recording quality is very good. Softer focus than BH, SS et al, with the slightest 'overhang' - nothing huge like some cathedral recordings but discernible, and more than with most venues. Definitely adds to the enjoyment of the music. For me it’s perfect, a real bonus that I couldn’t have expected. I have not read the booklet yet, it may cite the recording venue.

            To my ears there are no Sinopoli idiosyncrasies in this performance, so those who are less Sinopoli-tolerant need not worry. This symphony, IMV, sometimes comes across a bit 'clunky’ with climaxes and calmer passages coming together in a slightly abrupt manner. Sinopoli manages to get a far more balanced delivery, without it being in any way repressed.

            I would say that it is a performance that allows the drama in the music to come through unforced, albeit at the sake of some of the mystery that say, Karajan achieves.

            The adagio is beautiful. Sensitive, but not sentimental. At this moment in time, I would say it’s my favourite performance of the adagio.

            Sinopoli has a total grasp of the landler in the scherzo and is one of the most dance-like deliveries of this Austrian speciality that I’ve heard - not bad for an Italian (although he was born in Venice, not too far from Austria and a place that always figured in the Austro-Hungarian Empire!).

            The scherzo’s coda is white-hot and could be used as an exemplar for it’s justification.

            To my ears, Sinopoli achieves a molten-lava flow of the music, white-hot and sensitive where necessary.

            It’s hard to explain why I sense this - there is such interplay between the different sections of the brass and between the various groups of instruments that I got a sense that the musicians were first and foremost listening to one-another, playing to one-another. Especially in the outer movements.

            Everything else that is good about this music, is down to Bruckner!

            Those are my first thoughts, based on one listen.

            I’m very glad I bought this recording.

            Warning! I am a highly subjective, emotional, instinctive Bruckner and Sinopoli fan!

            Warning #2 Sinopoli is wearing a hideous jumper on the cover!
            Thanks for a terrific review! I've not only ordered No 3 but the other Sinopoli Bruckner discs I don't have (4, 7 & 9) as Presto CDs as they are currently offering 20% off.

            Your warning no 1 is unnecessary in my case. I'm glad I saw Sinopoli three times in London and the more Bruckner I hear the more I want to hear. Your warning no 2, on the other hand, is very necessary!
            "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

            Comment

            • ferneyhoughgeliebte
              Gone fishin'
              • Sep 2011
              • 30163

              Hold up! I bought a jumper just like that from a charity shop a few years ago - and I'm wearing it now!
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

              Comment

              • Beef Oven!
                Ex-member
                • Sep 2013
                • 18147

                Originally posted by P. G. Tipps View Post
                Interesting thoughts, Beefy! I do like that add-on to the scherzo in the 1877 version.

                I have an old self-recorded cassette tape somewhere of GS conducting the Third at a live concert in London which must be about 30 years old! I must look it out and see if it's still playable.

                I've long been fascinated about how top Italian conductors seem to take to Bruckner to a greater or lesser degree. There's Abbado, Chailly. Muti. Luisi. Giulini, Gatti and of course Sinopoli himself ... and maybe we can also half-include Barbirolli ... ?
                Yes, this performance really highlighted the scherzo coda, for me. Dig that cassette up - the question is, do you have a machine to play it on!?

                Interesting how the Italians are a match for the Germans and Austrians in Bruckner. Sinopoli is great in Elgar too, IMV.

                Comment

                • Beef Oven!
                  Ex-member
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 18147

                  Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                  Thanks for a terrific review! I've not only ordered No 3 but the other Sinopoli Bruckner discs I don't have (4, 7 & 9) as Presto CDs as they are currently offering 20% off.

                  Your warning no 1 is unnecessary in my case. I'm glad I saw Sinopoli three times in London and the more Bruckner I hear the more I want to hear. Your warning no 2, on the other hand, is very necessary!
                  Yes, Presto have a 20% discount at the moment. I don’t have Sinopoli’s B9 - might grab that.

                  I too saw Sinopoli in London. I used to have a subscription with the Philharmonia for a few years in the early 90s when Sinopoli was the director there, so I got to see him often.

                  Comment

                  • P. G. Tipps
                    Full Member
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 2978

                    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                    Yes, this performance really highlighted the scherzo coda, for me. Dig that cassette up - the question is, do you have a machine to play it on!?

                    Interesting how the Italians are a match for the Germans and Austrians in Bruckner. Sinopoli is great in Elgar too, IMV.
                    Good question!

                    I have an old radio-cassette recorder so I'll see how it goes and let you know ...

                    Comment

                    • Beef Oven!
                      Ex-member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 18147

                      Originally posted by P. G. Tipps View Post
                      Good question!

                      I have an old radio-cassette recorder so I'll see how it goes and let you know ...
                      I think I know how a 30 year old C90 and a radio-cassette recorder will go!!!!!

                      But do tell us anyway!!!

                      Comment

                      • P. G. Tipps
                        Full Member
                        • Jun 2014
                        • 2978

                        Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                        I think I know how a 30 year old C90 and a radio-cassette recorder will go!!!!!

                        But do tell us anyway!!!
                        Don't worry, Beefy ... keep the Tipps' faith!

                        Comment

                        • Alison
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 6468

                          This feels like a chummy interlude before all hell breaks loose tomorrow

                          Comment

                          • Beef Oven!
                            Ex-member
                            • Sep 2013
                            • 18147

                            Originally posted by Alison View Post
                            This feels like a chummy interlude before all hell breaks loose tomorrow


                            Well, when it comes to Bruckner, I have no quarrel with Scotty at all!

                            Limbering up for tomorrow, I spun Kna’s 1954 VPO B3 on Testament, earlier. Normally this performance sends shivers down my spine, but somehow, I found it dull. Maybe too much of a good thing, with Skrowaczewski, my newly acquired Haitink VPO and the Sinopoli?

                            Comment

                            • Alison
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 6468

                              No comments on the Bernie Haitink? Average?

                              Three cheers for Scotty.

                              Comment

                              • Beef Oven!
                                Ex-member
                                • Sep 2013
                                • 18147

                                Originally posted by Alison View Post
                                No comments on the Bernie Haitink? Average?

                                Three cheers for Scotty.
                                Average? No way! I focused on Sinopoli because that was the one we appear to be least familiar with.

                                I bought Haitink’s VPO 3 & 8 Philips coupling last night as a download from Qobuz. Presto have it for seven shillings less, but I only looked on Presto after I’d made my purchase. I was down for a while, but after a few hours I’d got over it and it didn’t ruin my evening.

                                I think it is a terrific recording that can, in its own way, stand up to the Karajan, Bohm et al stalwarts. I’ve only listened to it through once but I can tell it’s going to be a grower.

                                I have come very late to Haitink’s Bruckner, even though I’ve been to several of his Bruckner concerts down the years, including a wonderful #7 about 15 years ago (?) with the Berlin Philharmonic; standing in for their then music director, Claudio Abbado who had the ‘flu. Although I was upset that Claudio was ill, I was actually pleased to be having Haitink conduct instead of Abbado.

                                Uncle Bernie seems to be my dark horse.

                                Comment

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