BaL 31.12.16 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 3 in D minor

[Beef Oven!]

Listened to Karl Bohm’s VPO B3 on Decca this morning.

For some reason I have two copies of this, a single CD from Japan and a Decca Double Decca c/w #4!

[P. G. Tipps]

Out of curiosity (nosiness?), which are the other two?! I don't think that I'd go quite that far ... .

Maybe it is somewhat presumptuous of me but didn't ferneyhoughgeliebte mean the three established versions of Bruckner 3 ?

If so, some of us might be in full agreement with him/her and might ... just might ... be prepared to go even further ...

[Beef Oven!]

As to inclusion of the Marthé, as long as it's clearly described as a kind of recomposition by him rather than a version like all the others and it's left to stand or fall on its own merits or otherwise,

It is clearly described as 'Neufassung' reconstructed from the 1873-1876-1877-1889 editions. Ed. Peter Jan Marthe. There is nothing to add to the description.

but then if it were the second symphony would one feel it incumbent upon the survey's presenter to include Anthony Payne's chamber arrangement? - and if Mahler 9, should the chamber arrangement of that likewise be included?...

I agree. Nothing wrong with listing any versions of any compositions (Tomita’s Pictures, for example), all part of the service. What happens next is two things; 1) you take it or reject it according to your preference, and 2) the BaL presenter considers it, or doesn’t consider it and rejects it for whatever reason or recommends it.

It’s really quite straight forward (said in a David Coleman voice).

[Beef Oven!]

Maybe it is somewhat presumptuous of me but didn't ferneyhoughgeliebte mean the three established versions of Bruckner 3 ?

If so, some of us might be in full agreement with him/her and might ... just might ... be prepared to go even further ...

We did warn ourselves about not getting bogged down in the hoo-ha about editions and versions, but we did not heed our own warning. I imagine Saturday’s BaL won’t make the mistake that we’ve made.

Anyway, there is enough time before the broadcast to get back to focusing on the glorious music!

[Alison]

Yes the music is glorious. I was watching the P Jaarvi YouTube performance last night and have played the VPO/Haitink Cd this morning. At times I am left gasping at the pure inspiration of it all, in any flipping version!

What was Deryck Cooke's assessment? The least perfect but not the least magnificent of the symphonies? Not sure about the first bit!

[Pulcinella]

We did warn ourselves about not getting bogged down in the hoo-ha about editions and versions, but we did not heed our own warning.

But at least, thanks to you, I know that
1889 Version (aka 1888/89)!

1888/89 is how it's listed on my recording (EMI Jochum, Dresden Staatskapelle), and I was very hesitant to ask what that designation meant!

[Beef Oven!]

Yes the music is glorious. I was watching the P Jaarvi YouTube performance last night and have played the VPO/Haitink Cd this morning. At times I am left gasping at the pure inspiration of it all, in any flipping version!

What was Deryck Cooke's assessment? The least perfect but not the least magnificent of the symphonies? Not sure about the first bit!

Haitink in Bruckner is a bit of a blind-spot for me. In fact I don’t think I have anything of Haitink’s Bruckner other than a Decca 7, Philips 7 and a Decca 4.

[Beef Oven!]

But at least, thanks to you, I know that
1889 Version (aka 1888/89)!

1888/89 is how it's listed on my recording (EMI Jochum, Dresden Staatskapelle), and I was very hesitant to ask what that designation meant!

[Petrushka]

Haitink in Bruckner is a bit of a blind-spot for me. In fact I don’t think I have anything of Haitink’s Bruckner other than a Decca 7, Philips 7 and a Decca 4.

You should really try and hear the VPO/Haitink Bruckner 3, BeefO. Haitink uses the 1877 version and it's a terrific performance. The thunderous timpani roll at the end is most exciting.

What are your thoughts on the Sinopoli recording? I don't have it but feel sure you will knowing your admiration for Sinopoli. It's available as a Presto CD if it's worth adding to my collection.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Out of curiosity (nosiness?), which are the other two?! I don't think that I'd go quite that far, given certain symphonies of Beethoven, Brahms 1 & 4, Mahler 2, Tchaikovsky 4, 6 and Manfred, Liszt's A Faust Symphony and quite a few others, not least Bruckner's own later ones, but it was certainly by far his finest symphony at the time of its "completion"(?!).

I can't help recalling W S Gilbert's comment upon hearing of the death of Arthur Sullivan; "With him, I never had to do that fatal thing: explain a joke" (but then Gilbert's jokes weren't as "trying-to-be-clever" as was mine).

I meant (as both scotty and BeefO noticed, I'm relieved to see ) that Bruckner's Third Symphony is itself (or "is themselves") three of the best Symphonies of the 19thC.

[Beef Oven!]

You should really try and hear the VPO/Haitink Bruckner 3, BeefO. Haitink uses the 1877 version and it's a terrific performance. The thunderous timpani roll at the end is most exciting.

Thanks, I’ve neglected Haitink in Bruckner - 3 & 8 must be investigated, going by what Alison and you say.

What are your thoughts on the Sinopoli recording? I don't have it but feel sure you will knowing your admiration for Sinopoli. It's available as a Presto CD if it's worth adding to my collection.

Well although both Sinopoli and Bruckner are two of my most favourite musicians, I have to put my hand up to not owning this combination in #3! I shall put that right (this BaL is already becoming quite expensive and it has not even been broadcast yet!!).

I got Sinopoli’s B8 via the Presto 'on demand' CD service that you refer to, so I shall do the same with #3.

[P. G. Tipps]

Though, on balance, I prefer the 1873 version of Bruckner 3 I can see (or hear!) the attractions of the other two and I'd travel miles through a storm to hear any of them in concert. My own favourite recording (a personal one so not listed!) is the live LPO/Jurowski account of the 1873 version broadcast earlier in the year on R3. Truly stunning.

Now here's a bit of a coincidence. A brother-in-law of mine, an amateur artist, heard that I'd very much liked a picture of a lighthouse I'd seen in a library on a recent trip to Maine, and offered to paint one for Christmas, as he was familiar with the subject having. visited the area himself. Well when we met at Christmas he produced three different scenes of the said lighthouse and asked me to pick one. I found that almost impossible and, in the end, chose my 'favourite' with some reluctance as I didn't wish to suggest I considered it in any way "superior" to the others ... in fact I would gladly have taken all three but my b-i-l had already made plans for the two not chosen.

I find I have much the same 'problem' with the multiple Bruckner versions, but, oh. how I wish all life's little problems were like that!

[ahinton]

I can't help recalling W S Gilbert's comment upon hearing of the death of Arthur Sullivan; "With him, I never had to do that fatal thing: explain a joke" (but then Gilbert's jokes weren't as "trying-to-be-clever" as was mine).

I meant (as both scotty and BeefO noticed, I'm relieved to see ) that Bruckner's Third Symphony is itself (or "is themselves") three of the best Symphonies of the 19thC.

Joke now understood and point now taken!

For the record (and since you mention him en passant), I don't think that Sullivan's symphony would similarly qualify...

[ahinton]

Though, on balance, I prefer the 1873 version of Bruckner 3 I can see (or hear!) the attractions of the other two and I'd travel miles through a storm to hear any of them in concert. My own favourite recording (a personal one so not listed!) is the live LPO/Jurowski account of the 1873 version broadcast earlier in the year on R3. Truly stunning.

Now here's a bit of a coincidence. A brother-in-law of mine, an amateur artist, heard that I'd very much liked a picture of a lighthouse I'd seen in a library on a recent trip to Maine, and offered to paint one for Christmas, as he was familiar with the subject having. visited the area himself. Well when we met at Christmas he produced three different scenes of the said lighthouse and asked me to pick one. I found that almost impossible and, in the end, chose my 'favourite' with some reluctance as I didn't wish to suggest I considered it in any way "superior" to the others ... in fact I would gladly have taken all three but my b-i-l had already made plans for the two not chosen.

I'm trying hard not to imagine the prospect of a reloaded lighthouse being one of those from which you had to make your choice...

[ahinton]

Though, on balance, I prefer the 1873 version of Bruckner 3 I can see (or hear!) the attractions of the other two and I'd travel miles through a storm to hear any of them in concert. My own favourite recording (a personal one so not listed!) is the live LPO/Jurowski account of the 1873 version broadcast earlier in the year on R3. Truly stunning.

Now here's a bit of a coincidence. A brother-in-law of mine, an amateur artist, heard that I'd very much liked a picture of a lighthouse I'd seen in a library on a recent trip to Maine, and offered to paint one for Christmas, as he was familiar with the subject having. visited the area himself. Well when we met at Christmas he produced three different scenes of the said lighthouse and asked me to pick one. I found that almost impossible and, in the end, chose my 'favourite' with some reluctance as I didn't wish to suggest I considered it in any way "superior" to the others ... in fact I would gladly have taken all three but my b-i-l had already made plans for the two not chosen.

I'm trying hard not to imagine the prospect of a reloaded lighthouse being one of those from which you had to make your choice...