BaL 24.12.16/10.12.22 - Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 21 in C, K467

[jch48]

I have Perahia and Fischer and adore Fischer, especially some of the cadenzas in 21 and 22. After today I'd like to find time to listen to Krauss, Primakov and Brautigam.

[smittims]

Is that Lili Kraus? I like her Mozart concertos and sonatas. Another delctable female Mozart interpreter of both Concertos and sonatas is Maria Joao Pires, who played a concerto at the Proms a few years ago with Bernard Haitink, a memorable concert.

[Goon525]

Any mention of the recent, widely-acclaimed (including by me) MCO/Andsnes...? A lovely set with 20, 22 and the K478....

Or Brautigam?

Andsnes didn’t get a mention. But there are always versions that someone here would have wished to see included! (By the way, Jayne, did you see a PM from me a couple of weeks ago?)

[jayne lee wilson]

Andsnes didn’t get a mention. But there are always versions that someone here would have wished to see included! (By the way, Jayne, did you see a PM from me a couple of weeks ago?)

Sorry, I saw it belatedly after returning from a second stay in hospital and slowly trying to readjust back home....apologies.

It seemed strange to overlook Andsnes simply because it came out in 2021, and has been widely reviewed and similarly acclaimed.... I would say, deservedly....Gramophone Special Achievement Award 2022, runner-up in the Concerto Category.
The performances can seem slightly cool at first, but one soon comes to appreciate their subtleties; the dialoguing, responsive interplay of soloist/ensemble really makes the set a grower....I felt 21 and 22 were the best of them.

As is often noted, it's impossible for BaL to offer a comprehensive survey of such a work, but surely a few comments on the latest releases (at least those with a generally positive response), or those released since the last survey, might be a good place to start...? The Primakov (2011) looks intriguing, I'll try it later....
(The Odense SO have an interesting discog, including a quirky but very individual Nielsen Cycle with Serov on Kontrapunkt).

[Bryn]

I was not listening too closely throughout Saturday's broadcast. Were either or both of Christian Zacharias's recordings discussed (the BRSO/Zinman or later Lausanne, directed from the piano)?

[silvestrione]

I was not listening too closely throughout Saturday's broadcast. Were either or both of Christian Zacharias's recordings discussed (the BRSO/Zinman or later Lausanne, directed from the piano)?

No, I don't think so. Favourites of yours?

[Bryn]

No, I don't think so. Favourites of yours?

Not so much the earlier EMI/Warner recording but the multi-award-winning MDG set is one of my favourite recordings with modern instruments.

[Alison]

Interesting call Nethersage.

[mikealdren]

Following the programme, I've just acquired the Uchida and I like it a lot, it's also beautifully recorded. I've also relistened to my other recordings and been a little surprised at the results.

As others have remarked, Annie Fischer came out very well and with rather better sound than Lily Kraus which I thought sounded older than its years in the broadcast.

I was disappointed by Kempff, a lovely touch of course but just too slow throughout, something that I hadn't really noticed when listening to it in isolation. Gulda lingers over every detail, lovely playing but too mannered? It drew me in as it went forwards. Cassadesus is good of course and I didn't find it too slow but it's an old recording now. Speeds have definitely increased over time.

Pires is modern but bland, she didn't seem to have anything to say about the music, for me, the same applies to Perahia and, to a lesser extent Anda, the first performance marketed with the Madigan link. People make a lot of the film's influence but I don't remember it making that big an impact at the time, much more of a niche Art film than a blockbuster and the link between film and music has been reinforced over the years, ClassicFM is guilty here. It's odd because people don't link, for example, the Schubert Notturno and Kubrick's Barry Lyndon to anything like the same extent.

Brendel (Marriner) and Kovacevich are both very good in their ways. Marriner's accompaniment is excellent with great attention to detail and lovely playing although the ASMF sounds very large according to my HIPP influenced ears. Colin Davis, for Kovacevich, gets more of a chamber sound from the LSO than the ASMF or Perahia's ECO.

The piano entry in the slow movement is a defining point for me, the best performances manage a stillness and magic while others sound mechanical in comparison. For me, Uchida was a very good choice and on balance I find it the best of the bunch.

[Barbirollians]

Following the programme, I've just acquired the Uchida and I like it a lot, it's also beautifully recorded. I've also relistened to my other recordings and been a little surprised at the results.

As others have remarked, Annie Fischer came out very well and with rather better sound than Lily Kraus which I thought sounded older than its years in the broadcast.

I was disappointed by Kempff, a lovely touch of course but just too slow throughout, something that I hadn't really noticed when listening to it in isolation. Gulda lingers over every detail, lovely playing but too mannered? It drew me in as it went forwards. Cassadesus is good of course and I didn't find it too slow but it's an old recording now. Speeds have definitely increased over time.

Pires is modern but bland, she didn't seem to have anything to say about the music, for me, the same applies to Perahia and, to a lesser extent Anda, the first performance marketed with the Madigan link. People make a lot of the film's influence but I don't remember it making that big an impact at the time, much more of a niche Art film than a blockbuster and the link between film and music has been reinforced over the years, ClassicFM is guilty here. It's odd because people don't link, for example, the Schubert Notturno and Kubrick's Barry Lyndon to anything like the same extent.

Brendel (Marriner) and Kovacevich are both very good in their ways. Marriner's accompaniment is excellent with great attention to detail and lovely playing although the ASMF sounds very large according to my HIPP influenced ears. Colin Davis, for Kovacevich, gets more of a chamber sound from the LSO than the ASMF or Perahia's ECO.

The piano entry in the slow movement is a defining point for me, the best performances manage a stillness and magic while others sound mechanical in comparison. For me, Uchida was a very good choice and on balance I find it the best of the bunch.

Geza Anda and bland - not words I would expect to find in the same sentence !

[richardfinegold]

Following the programme, I've just acquired the Uchida and I like it a lot, it's also beautifully recorded. I've also relistened to my other recordings and been a little surprised at the results.

As others have remarked, Annie Fischer came out very well and with rather better sound than Lily Kraus which I thought sounded older than its years in the broadcast.

I was disappointed by Kempff, a lovely touch of course but just too slow throughout, something that I hadn't really noticed when listening to it in isolation. Gulda lingers over every detail, lovely playing but too mannered? It drew me in as it went forwards. Cassadesus is good of course and I didn't find it too slow but it's an old recording now. Speeds have definitely increased over time.

Pires is modern but bland, she didn't seem to have anything to say about the music, for me, the same applies to Perahia and, to a lesser extent Anda, the first performance marketed with the Madigan link. People make a lot of the film's influence but I don't remember it making that big an impact at the time, much more of a niche Art film than a blockbuster and the link between film and music has been reinforced over the years, ClassicFM is guilty here. It's odd because people don't link, for example, the Schubert Notturno and Kubrick's Barry Lyndon to anything like the same extent.

Brendel (Marriner) and Kovacevich are both very good in their ways. Marriner's accompaniment is excellent with great attention to detail and lovely playing although the ASMF sounds very large according to my HIPP influenced ears. Colin Davis, for Kovacevich, gets more of a chamber sound from the LSO than the ASMF or Perahia's ECO.

The piano entry in the slow movement is a defining point for me, the best performances manage a stillness and magic while others sound mechanical in comparison. For me, Uchida was a very good choice and on balance I find it the best of the bunch.

I just listened to Brendel/Mariner yesterday. The cadenzas chosen knock it down a few pegs imo

[jayne lee wilson]

The Schubert movement used in Kubrick's Barry Lyndon is in fact the andante con moto from the D929 Piano Trio (not the Notturno). Very hauntingly too, but isn't the Sarabande from the Handel Keyboard Suite in D Minor more likely to be associated with the film?

[mikealdren]

Of course it was, thanks for the reminder - a long time since I saw the film.

My point is that film has used classical music many times but it's strange that a relatively obscure film is linked irrevocably with the Mozart piano concerto, surely a major work in its own right. I would argue that the film is only remembered because it used, and later became associated with, the Mozart which is certainly more memorable than the film.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Of course it was, thanks for the reminder - a long time since I saw the film.

My point is that film has used classical music many times but it's strange that a relatively obscure film is linked irrevocably with the Mozart piano concerto, surely a major work in its own right. I would argue that the film is only remembered because it used, and later became associated with, the Mozart which is certainly more memorable than the film.

The film is listed on one website as one of “10 films saved by its music soundtrack.” It got mixed reviews with praise mainly for its lush cinematography. Rather like Barry Lyndon ( a much better film) it was ravishing to look at and had a very good looking female lead. It wasn’t much of a critical success but made about 11 million dollars in total which is good going for an art film. The motto is if you’ve got some weak content slap a bit of quality music on it..a motto followed by filmmakers since the invention of the talkies.

[LHC]

Of course it was, thanks for the reminder - a long time since I saw the film.

My point is that film has used classical music many times but it's strange that a relatively obscure film is linked irrevocably with the Mozart piano concerto, surely a major work in its own right. I would argue that the film is only remembered because it used, and later became associated with, the Mozart which is certainly more memorable than the film.

I think one of the reasons the spurious title became associated with the concerto in this case was that DG actively marketed Geza Anda's recording as the recording used in the film, complete with a soft focus shot from the film.



Prior to this I believe classical record companies were rather reluctant to associate their recordings with films. As I recall Decca only gave permission for the use of HvK's recording of Also Sprach Zarathustra on the 2001 soundtrack on condition that the film company didn't reveal which recording was used.

Although the Handel Sarabande did become indelibly linked with its use in Barry Lyndon, I don't recall any recordings of it being marketed as "as heard in Barry Lyndon".

Funnily enough, the Jupiter Ensemble played the Sarabande at a concert at the Wigmore Hall last week, and they referenced it as now being one of Handel's most famous pieces thanks to Stanley Kubrick