BaL 17.12.16 - Lassus: Lagrime di San Pietro

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

0930
Building a Library: Caroline Gill surveys recordings of Lagrime di San Pietro by Orlande de Lassus, a collection of twenty spiritual madrigals and one motet for seven voices setting poems by Luigi Tansillo depicting the sorrows of St Peter following his denial of Christ

Available recordings:

Gallicantus, Gabriel Crouch

Maria-Cristina Kiehr, Johanna Koslowsky, Simon Berridge, Gerd Türk, Hervé Lamy, Peter Kooy, Adrian Peacock, Ensemble Vocal Européen, Philippe Herreweghe

Ars Nova, Bo Holten

Studio de Musique Ancienne de Montréal, Christopher Jackson

Huelgas Ensemble, Paul van Nevel

Franz Liszt Academy of Music Chamber Choir, Istvan Parkai (download)

Capella Ducale Venetia, Livio Picotti

Ensemble Hofkapelle, Michael Procter (download)

[cincinnatus]

A nice easy week, EA

However I see that the BBC have already published the listings for Christmas Eve and Building a Library is a 'biggie'. I should get started now compiling the list of runners and riders

[CallMePaul]

An odd choice for the Christmas period - I would have thought it more appropriate to Holy Week!

This is a work I am not familiar with so I will listen with interest and make my mind up. Of the groups listed I am only familiar with Ars Nova and Huelgas Ensemble, plus I have heard a number of Herreweg-led performances (not of Lassus though).

[Pulcinella]

An odd choice for the Christmas period - I would have thought it more appropriate to Holy Week!

My thought exactly when I first saw it listed as a forthcoming BaL in BBCMM.

I have no recollection of buying it, but I have a copy of the Ars Nova/Holten recording, and it no longer had the cellophane wrapping on, which suggests that I had listened to it once.
Giving it another spin now.
Will aim to listen to the program, mainly to find out more about the work, but I'm not on the lookout for another version.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A nice easy week, EA

However I see that the BBC have already published the listings for Christmas Eve and Building a Library is a 'biggie'. I should get started now compiling the list of runners and riders

I know. I'm already on to it.

[ardcarp]

An odd choice for the Christmas period

Yes, but won't it be a relief to have a break from Festive Overload?
Hope you don't mind, EA, but I'm putting a link on the Early Music site.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, but won't it be a relief to have a break from Festive Overload?

- after all, Bach uses the passiontide chorale O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden (which IIRC, has its origins in the text of the Lagrimi) in the first of the Cantatas of his Christmas Oratorio.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

- after all, Bach uses the passiontide chorale O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden (which IIRC, has its origins in the text of the Lagrimi) in the first of the Cantatas of his Christmas Oratorio.

IRI

[BBMmk2]

I have found that Radio 3 is never all that festive at this time of year.

[jean]

IRI

I was just puzzling about that, but didn't like to say anything. The chorale is indeed based on a Latin devotional poem, but not the same one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrime_di_San_Pietro

The Lagrimi is a wonderful work, with an unusual structure, making use of the modes in sequence. I like to think this is why the tonality is difficult for singers, changing as it does from one stanza to the next. But perhaps I am just making excuses.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Gallicantus, Gabriel Crouch

[ardcarp]

If I had not been so interested in this amazing piece I would have chucked something at the radio. No doubt hampered by the arty-farty dialogue with Andrew (which we all dislike, I think) it seemed that Ms Gill kept repeating herself about rather few points. One was the continuous nature of Lagrime and another was what Lassus might have 'felt' while composing it...which of course we don't know. (He was old and ill, yes, but such tribulation has often sparked the muse.) Another was intonation. Now anyone who heard the extracts played (did we hear from Huelgas Ensemble, BTW?) will know that they were all pretty darn good in that respect. What she might have said was that all the versions used very 'straight' singers especially the sopranos (or altos, if no female voices were used). A 'wobbly' choir would not ahve been put to such scrutiny; and can you imagine Lagrime sung by........?

I thought Ms Gill was a bit dismissive of Bo Holton and Ars Nova. I could see perfectly well what he was trying to do, i.e. inject some variety of pace and articulation into this long piece to avoid it becoming 'samey'. I heard the chosen version by Gallicantus this morning (Sunday) in not quite its entirety; and while they make a wonderful sound it did become (to me anyway) a tad unrelieved. Interesting that Ms Gill complained of 'counter-tenor overdose' (or words to that effect) in relation to another version, but chose one with countertenors on top for her final choice.

Personally, I loved the sound-world of Capella Ducale Venetia directed by Livio Picotti. It seemd to link Lassus to the polychoral world of Gabrieli and Monteverdi, and for that reason, and for the excellent recorded sound, that's going to be my Easter present!

I was quite intrigued by the text, and having read it (in translation) I am unable to decide whether it is about Peter's guilt at having betrayed Jesus, or about Jesus's annoyance at being betrayed by Peter. My interest is that of an agnostic, but I'd love to hear from anyone who can cast some light on Luigi Tansillo's extraordinary verse.

http://www0.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Le_lagrime_di_San_Pietro

Scroll down to find complete text with translations.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If I had not been so interested in this amazing piece I would have chucked something at the radio.

No doubt hampered by the arty-farty dialogue with Andrew (which we all dislike, I think)

(have they changed the name of the programme yat again? The whole wretched programme yesterday was definitely an "Andrew MacGregor Show" - if he'd been sponsored by the word, he could've paid off the National Debt!)

it seemed that Ms Gill kept repeating herself about rather few points. One was the continuous nature of Lagrime and another was what Lassus might have 'felt' while composing it...which of course we don't know. (He was old and ill, yes, but such tribulation has often sparked the muse.)

(did we hear from Huelgas, Ensemble, BTW?)

No. (Another for the "intonation" points you raise, too.)

I thought Ms Gill was a bit dismissive of Bo Holton and Ars Nova.

I'll say!!!

I heard the chosen version by Gallicantus this morning (Sunday) in not quite its entirety; and while they make a wonderful sound it did become (to me anyway) a tad unrelieved. Interesting that Ms Gill complained of 'counter-tenor overdose' (or words to that effect) in relation to another version, but chose one with countertenors on top for her final choice.

I see what you mean - Gallicantus sounded wonderful in the excerpts played yesterday, but put together ... yeah. But I think the "Countertenor Overdose" was in reference to one recording (which she preferred to Holten) where there was a particularly nasty shrieking c/t: I didn't get the impression she was suggesting that all recordings with c/t had the same bad effect.

A wonderful opportunity to present this marvellous Music to a wider audience, but which fell very short of the mark when it came to the crunch, I felt.

[Pulcinella]

I'm happy enough with the Holten, and was not that persuaded by any other recording (I didn't really concentrate on the programme because of its twofer aspect; yes, how we hate them!).

[Chris Watson]

Pity this one wasn't included!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HygxhdLJb4Y&app=desktop