BaL 12.11.16 - Vaughan Williams: A London Symphony

[BBMmk2]

Let's see... I have Boult's re-mastered 1951, Handley, Andrew Davies, Andre Previn. Be a very interesting BaL, methinks.

NB Plus Richard Hickox's wonderful recording on Chandos of the 'original version'.

[Tony Halstead]

If you mean the tune in C major about 2'30" in ( 2nd mvt) it's played by the 1st trumpet, quite low in its register, doubled by 1st flute, also low down, with the 1st horn softly 'shadowing' the tune's 3rd- 4th notes and 8th-9th notes,
a rising interval of a 4th.
During the Previn/ LSO recording session, when I was playing that horn part, I was quite worried about the potential balance problem, what with the trumpet and flute being so low and relatively 'unresonant' compared to the horn which is pitched in its most 'ringing' register... I had the feeling at the time that I was 'sucking' rather than blowing!

Throppers raises an interesting point here in that - depending on which recording you listen to, of course - the scoring of 2 seemingly incompatible instruments in unison, trumpet and flute, generates a new sound or a tone that is vaguely unidentifiable but beautiful nevertheless. Until about an hour ago I hadn't heard the Previn / LSO recording since it came out on LP over 40 years ago, and now having listened on CD can only marvel at the superb blend of the 1st flute and 1st trumpet, William Bennett and Howard Snell, in the perfect acoustics of the much-missed Kingsway Hall, greatly aided and abetted by the late Kenneth Wilkinson, that doyen of recording engineers.

[Thropplenoggin]

If you mean the tune in C major about 2'30" in ( 2nd mvt) it's played by the 1st trumpet, quite low in its register, doubled by 1st flute, also low down, with the 1st horn softly 'shadowing' the tune's 3rd- 4th notes and 8th-9th notes,
a rising interval of a 4th.
During the Previn/ LSO recording session, when I was playing that horn part, I was quite worried about the potential balance problem, what with the trumpet and flute being so low and relatively 'unresonant' compared to the horn which is pitched in its most 'ringing' register... I had the feeling at the time that I was 'sucking' rather than blowing!

Thanks for this informatoin, Tony. It's great to have these fascinating insights from former orchestral players. It really is a very unusual sound - most beguiling. I'll listen out for you when I play the Previn next.

[visualnickmos]

Thanks for this informatoin, Tony. It's great to have these fascinating insights from former orchestral players. It really is a very unusual sound - most beguiling. I'll listen out for you when I play the Previn next.

...and part of my (this) evening's listening is now decided - Previn/RVW/'London' symphony... and I'll be listening with 'new ears' so to speak... very much looking forward to it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[EdgeleyRob]

Thanks for this informatoin, Tony. It's great to have these fascinating insights from former orchestral players. It really is a very unusual sound - most beguiling. I'll listen out for you when I play the Previn next.

Thanks from me too Tony.

[visualnickmos]

I'm rather surprised that this forthcoming BaL, hasn't generated more debate.....

In bafflement,
Nick

[pastoralguy]

I'm rather surprised that this forthcoming BaL, hasn't generated more debate.....

In bafflement,
Nick

Alas, I'll be at work when this BaL is on tomorrow but I'll listen on the iplayer.

[ardcarp]

I'm rather surprised that this forthcoming BaL, hasn't generated more debate

Is it because the thread has been tacked on to Our Summer BAL and maybe got a bit buried?

Anyway I'm sure there will be some opinions flying on Saturday.

Isn't Mark Lowther a staff producer for Radio 3 ? Anyone know more about him?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm rather surprised that this forthcoming BaL, hasn't generated more debate.....

In bafflement,
Nick

Well - there aren't any performances using 18th Century instruments, and, as far as I know, nobody's made a really duff recording of the work. Back in the late '70s, Michael Kennedy awarded the laurels to Boult's EMI recording - it was bought for me as a 20th birthday present by the parents of my girlfriend at the time; they had hopes that the lass herself didn't share!

Purely for the purposes of generating debate, y'understand, the London isn't my favourite RVW Symphony - my seventh favourite, if you will. Nor was Mark Elder anything but a source of mild distaste until about ten years ago, when the Slow Movement of his brand-new recording of the London Symphony was played on CDReview - and utterly beguiled me throughout.

[EdgeleyRob]

Winner ?

Heart,Bakels.
Head,Manze.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well - there aren't any performances using 18th Century instruments,

What about the Norrington?

...the London isn't my favourite RVW Symphony - my seventh favourite, if you will.

Purely out of interest, could we have a rank order?

[Pabmusic]

I'm rather surprised that this forthcoming BaL, hasn't generated more debate.....

In bafflement,
Nick

Well, there have been several RVW threads recently, and I can't copy everything from each into them all.

Still, you might appreciate George Butterworth's review in the RCM Magazine:

Mr F. B. Ellis, whose recent series of concerts is noticed elsewhere, may be considered fortunate in having secured the first performance of at least one work of outstanding importance. The compositions of Vaughan Williams merit the attention of every serious student, not merely on account of their intrinsic musical value, but also as offering an unusually interesting example of the growth of a contemporary style. It would be hard to name any other first-rate composer who has ‘found himself’ with such apparent difficulty as Vaughan Williams, and this fact is sometimes cited against him as proof of amateurish clumsiness; the beauty and originality of his ideas is widely recognized, but the not infrequent failure to express them clearly is usually ascribed to some inherent incapacity for perfecting a technique.

It would probably be more logical to blame the actual newness of the ideas themselves, and the necessity thus created for the laborious working out of a new method. The same paradox applies in some measure to all composers of progressive tendency, but in the case of Vaughan Williams the labours of the preceding generation seem to have been unusually little assistance; the absence of a characteristically native idiom may largely account for this, but it would be premature to attempt a final explanation. What is of more immediate importance is to recognize that in his later works Vaughan Williams has given evidence of having finally overcome what Mr Edwin Evans aptly terms his ‘impediment of speech’; hence the announcement of a full-blooded symphony from his pen was calculated to raise hopes of something exceptionally good.

It may be said at once that these hopes have been fully realized; in this new work, almost for the first time, the composer’s ideas and their actual expression are really commensurate, and the success of the symphony was greatly enhanced by the magnificent performance given by the Queen’s Hall Orchestra, under the direction of Me Geoffrey Toye – perhaps as good a ‘first’ performance as it would be possible to obtain.

As the title implies, the symphony is descriptive of London, more especially the London of to-day. It would be useless, without the aid of musical illustrations, to give an exhaustive analysis, and a short account of each movement will suffice.

A slow, mystical prelude – to be considered as introductory to the work as a whole – leads directly into the first movement proper, an exhilarating and expansive piece of music, which seems to owe its genesis to the stirring bustle of every-day life, and the busy turmoil of the London streets. The melodic material is very abundant, and many of the tunes have a distinctly ‘popular’ flavour about them; there are, of course, contrasting sections of more restrained character, but the general mood is boisterous, and the close a perfect orgy of triumph. This movement is certainly the most brilliant piece of orchestral writing that Vaughan Williams has as yet produced.

The slow movement is an idyll of grey skies and secluded byways – an aspect of London quite as familiar as any other; the feeling of the music is remote and mystical, and its very characteristic beauty is not of a kind which it is possible to describe in words.

To the Scherzo is given the alternative title ‘Nocturne’; the combination is unexpected, but justified by the nature of the subject; after all, to the average Londoner, the night is generally the time in which he is free to ‘play’. It is not, however, a scene of conventional metropolitan gaiety which is depicted, but rather the careless freedom with which common folk disport themselves at night in the open streets. In addition to the ‘Scherzo’ proper there are two ‘Trios’, of which the second is in strong contrast with the rest of the movement.

The Finale is the longest of the four movements; perhaps, also, it is the least satisfactory; not that there is any falling off in the interest, but, as in the last movement of the ‘Sea’ Symphony, there is a feeling that the composer is straining himself to express just a little too much; in this case, however, the flaw is a much slighter one, and may easily prove to be illusory when the work is heard a second time. The music is for the most part strenuous, but in a different sense from that in which the first movement is so. It is the unrest of a conscious struggle which is here suggested.

When this mood has worked itself out, there is a return to the theme of the Prelude, which is treated at some length, and forms an impressive epilogue to the whole work.

It is now also a common-place to say of a novelty that it was ‘enthusiastically received’; the description means little or nothing, and yet there are occasions on which it is instinctively and generally felt that something out of the ordinary has been achieved. There can be no question as to the appeal which this work made to those who were present on March 27, and it is presumable that it would be equally successful with any normal English audience. The only question is whether it will be given the opportunity of becoming popular. The mere necessity for asking such a question shows up once again the astonishing conditions which govern the policy of concert-giving organizations in this country, and it is actually true that no arrangements have as yet been made for a second performance.

[rauschwerk]

What about the Norrington?

The Norrington certainly deserves to be taken seriously. I bought it because it comes with the most wonderful version of the Serenade to Music (a BaL recommendation). What puts me off it is what I see as Norrington's exaggeration of the many tempo changes in the first movement (all marked largamente followed by animato).

[BBMmk2]

Rauschwerk, that is one conductor I need to investigate further, but I might find that in other repertoire.