BaL 15.10.16 - Cabaret

[doversoul1]

With all the things said upthread in mind, it seems to me there are two distinct questions to answer.

1. Was BAL well presented?
2. Was Cabaret a suitable topic for BAL?

1. For me Richard Sisson conducted a splendid survey of the piece. He was (obviously) very well-informed and played lots of examples to illustrate his case. His manner was also just right for a R3 audience; intelligent, with occasional dry humour. It was an eye-opener to me to hear Judy Dench in the role of Sally Bowles! (I might add how awful 'a chat-with-Andrew' format would have been.)

2. Yes it most certainly was. Apart from the film, I'd only seen a student production of Cabaret (with one of my daughters as MD as it happens!) and I felt I wanted to get to know the show and its additional material better. No need to be highbrow or sniffy IMVHO.

I did feel the chosen version came as a bit of a rabbit out of a hat, though I respect entirely RS's opionion of its musical excellence. In spite of being a Francophile with knobs on, I do think I'd prefer an English language version if I bought a CD to live with.

I was left with a real enthsiasm to go and see a (professional) live staging were one to appear in a theatre near me...or a live streaming.

The question I would ask is ‘Is musical a suitable subject for BaL?

This is not necessarily because musical is not classical music but musical, unlike opera, is (almost) entirely dependent on productions and it makes little sense in discussing the performance of the music independently (i.e. CDs). I find it terribly annoying to be taken for granted that I saw the stage / film and familiar with the story. And would I buy a CD of a musical I have not seen? I doubt it.

[Bryn]

The question I would ask is ‘Is musical a suitable subject for BaL?

This is not necessarily because musical is not classical music but musical, unlike opera, is (almost) entirely dependent on productions and it makes little sense in discussing the performance of the music independently (i.e. CDs). I find it terribly annoying to be taken for granted that I saw the stage / film. And would I buy a CD of a musical I have not seen? I doubt it.

I really do not follow your argument here. Many opera productions and recordings of a given work employ different musical texts and performing approaches. How is this different in essence from the various approaches to production and revisions of musical text discussed in this BaL? Should, for instance, a Bal on Fidelio exclude consideration of the recordings of two earlier versions of Leonore? Should the Fricsay Fidelio be excluded due to its reduced orchestral forces, etc?

[underthecountertenor]

I really do not follow your argument here. Many opera productions and recordings of a given work employ different musical texts and performing approaches. How is this different in essence from the various approaches to production and revisions of musical text discussed in this BaL? Should, for instance, a Bal on Fidelio exclude consideration of the recordings of two earlier versions of Leonore? Should the Fricsay Fidelio be excluded due to its reduced orchestral forces, etc?

I think the argument is that the position is invariably more extreme with musicals.

[Beef Oven!]

An excellent Bal, great background information, interesting music wonderful performances and a milestone 20th century work.

Cabaret with Liza Minelli was part of my childhood and the LP was in my family home from the beginning. But, I always felt it was no more than a selection of great songs and music and doesn’t do justice to the film. I attended an amazing amateur production in the 1970s on the stage. Good to see there are a few more recordings now that go beyond the 1972 LP.

I was hoping to add a recording to my collection (library?) but it was not to be. I need to reflect. I can’t get my head around it in French! But the performance is magnificent.

Dame Judi Dench’s 1968 is my front runner.

[BBMmk2]

Ps Brassbandmaestro's CABERET (sic) could I suppose be a tribute to that French production.

caberet saugvignon blanc

[french frank]

1. Was BAL well presented?
2. Was Cabaret a suitable topic for BAL?

1. For me Richard Sisson conducted a splendid survey of the piece. He was (obviously) very well-informed and played lots of examples to illustrate his case. His manner was also just right for a R3 audience; intelligent, with occasional dry humour. It was an eye-opener to me to hear Judy Dench in the role of Sally Bowles! (I might add how awful 'a chat-with-Andrew' format would have been.)

2. Yes it most certainly was. Apart from the film, I'd only seen a student production of Cabaret (with one of my daughters as MD as it happens!) and I felt I wanted to get to know the show and its additional material better.

Was the Threepenny Opera a musical or an opera? (BaL 2004 ), Kiss Me Kate? (BaL 2001). West Side Story? HMS Pinafore? This is nothing new. There seem to me to have been enough votes in favour of the Cabaret BaL that it becomes irrelevant whether they are a majority or minority. Arguments as to why Building a Library should exclude all musicals don't seem to be supported by any special remit for the feature. If a work has been recorded in a number of different versions it seems reasonable to compare them. It's unlikely that such as Bob Dylan or David Bowie will be included since, as with most artists from the popular culture scene, they perform their own material and no one else does (okay, there are occasional cover versions).

[Bryn]

Was the Threepenny Opera a musical or an opera? (BaL 2004 ), Kiss Me Kate? (BaL 2001). West Side Story? HMS Pinafore? This is nothing new. There seem to me to have been enough votes in favour of the Cabaret BaL that it becomes irrelevant whether they are a majority or minority. Arguments as to why Building a Library should exclude all musicals don't seem to be supported by any special remit for the feature. If a work has been recorded in a number of different versions it seems reasonable to compare them. It's unlikely that such as Bob Dylan or David Bowie will be included since, as with most artists from the popular culture scene, they perform their own material and no one else does (okay, there are occasional cover versions).

Hmm. Rather a lot of 'covers' or, rather, different versions/productions of Stairway to Heaven. My own library choice was and remains:

[french frank]

Hmm. Rather a lot of 'covers' or, rather, different versions/productions of Stairway to Heaven. My own library choice was and remains:

I feel a bit like the legendary High Court Judge. Is this just the song which seems to be on average about 8 minutes long or is that the title song of a more substantial work? If the latter, I wouldn't see an automatic objection if Radio 3 thought there was an audience who would be likely to listen to such a BaL. If the former you might as well have an operatic aria - Nessun dorma, for example - as the BaL choice.

If BaL regulars object to Cabaret, Carousel, Kiss Me Kate &c on BaL, their most effective protest is not to listen: it will show up on the listening figures.

I've just listened to the Zappa version and read the Led Zeppelin lyrics …

[Beef Oven!]

Was the Threepenny Opera a musical or an opera? (BaL 2004 ), Kiss Me Kate? (BaL 2001). West Side Story? HMS Pinafore? This is nothing new. There seem to me to have been enough votes in favour of the Cabaret BaL that it becomes irrelevant whether they are a majority or minority. Arguments as to why Building a Library should exclude all musicals don't seem to be supported by any special remit for the feature. If a work has been recorded in a number of different versions it seems reasonable to compare them. It's unlikely that such as Bob Dylan or David Bowie will be included since, as with most artists from the popular culture scene, they perform their own material and no one else does (okay, there are occasional cover versions).

I’ve never seriously differentiated between opera, operettas, musicals or anything similar.

[gradus]

I enjoyed what I heard of this BAL but agree that the choice of the French version was a bit of a rabbit out of the hat, hence I would guess the supplementary choices announced by Andrew.

[Bryn]

... I've just listened to the Zappa version and read the Led Zeppelin lyrics …

To avoid any possible confusion, it was the Frank Vincent Zappa version also to be found on the "The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life" I was referring to, not the rather later one by his son Dweezil.

[Beef Oven!]

To avoid any possible confusion, it was the Frank Vincent Zappa version also to be found on the "The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life" I was referring to, not the rather later one by his son Dweezil.

A Zappa low-point, IMV. Taking the mickey out of fellow musicians. Even the great Vincenzo was capable of low points.

[doversoul1]

I really do not follow your argument here. Many opera productions and recordings of a given work employ different musical texts and performing approaches. How is this different in essence from the various approaches to production and revisions of musical text discussed in this BaL? Should, for instance, a Bal on Fidelio exclude consideration of the recordings of two earlier versions of Leonore? Should the Fricsay Fidelio be excluded due to its reduced orchestral forces, etc?

A recording of an opera is a whole work (of the chosen version) whereas that of musical contains only the music of the work (at least the Cabaret LP I had did), rather like a collection of arias.

By the way, why is it always musical when it’s non-classical? What's wrong with songs by Cole Porter or where to start building a library of Stan Getz recordings etc.?

[Bryn]

A Zappa low-point, IMV. Taking the mickey out of fellow musicians. Even the great Vincenzo was capable of low points.

Very much a playful tribute as, in a less jocular mode, was son Dweezil's on a tribute album.

[hafod]

With all the things said upthread in mind, it seems to me there are two distinct questions to answer.
1. Was BAL well presented?
2. Was Cabaret a suitable topic for BAL?

Lke adcarp I thought this BaL was well presented and a suitable topic for such treatment. Unlike adcarp and despite only having heard excerpts, I have no wish to hear it in full let alone have a recording of it. There are no musicals in my collection and thank you to BaL for confirming today that this genre should remain a closed book for me. Small mercies but my collection needs anything it can to relieve pressures on it - particularly space.