BaL 15.10.16 - Cabaret

[Serial_Apologist]

And yet Italian (with which I am personally more 'comfortable') shd surely be the ultimate 'elitist' language? - resonances of the Grand Tour, the unspeakeable red-trouser brigade who infest chiantishire...

But then Italian as a language is more of the bread-and-butter which ennyone innarested in classical music picks up from the very beginning - allegros and prestos, pianos and fortes...

Asked by my next-door neighbours, most of whom speak little or no English, where I acquired my "Italian", I told them it was a combination of music scores, menus and recipes.

[vinteuil]

Asked by my next-door neighbours, most of whom speak little or no English, where I acquired my "Italian", I told them it was a combination of music scores, menus and recipes.

....

yes - my Italian from Monteverdi and Verdi, my German from Bach and Wagner.

So I'm OK if it's passion and betrayal and mourning and doom - hopeless for getting a taxi or explaining a burst pipe to a plumber...

[Nick Armstrong]

my German from Bach and Wagner.

Mine too - and Strauss (my school also denied me the chance to learn German). Anyway, I'm laughing now when I meet a silent woman, or one without a shadow, when touring Germany...

[Petrushka]

Mine too - and Strauss (my school also denied me the chance to learn German). Anyway, I'm laughing now when I meet a silent woman, or one without a shadow, when touring Germany...

Many years ago I had a conversation in Munich with my hotel receptionist about this. I said that I'd learnt what German I had from Wagner and he said that if you talked in the same way in Germany few would understand you as Wagner wrote his libretti in High German which, my hotel receptionist pointed out, is something equivalent to Shakespeare's English here.

On the question of spoken dialogue, Die Fledermaus has very close to an entire Act in dialogue. The line between opera, operetta and musical is often blurred and Fledermaus has elements of all three.

[pastoralguy]

As a young violin student and professional I spent a LOT of time playing in pits for shows and I've always loved them. There's something about playing for an audience of people who wouldn't normally hear live music that made those weeks in the pit special.

I've played 'CABARET' a couple of times and the shivers still run down my spine when I hear that snare drum roll at the start.

[Beef Oven!]

As a young violin student and professional I spent a LOT of time playing in pits for shows and I've always loved them. There's something about playing for an audience of people who wouldn't normally hear live music that made those weeks in the pit special.

I've played 'CABARET' a couple of times and the shivers still run down my spine when I hear that snare drum roll at the start.

[ahinton]

Bristol Old Vic. 1978. Rehearsal pianist. Shan't forget that one in a hurry. Especially listening to one of the actors giving a decent account of the Godowsky Symphonic Metamorphosis on Wein Weib und Gesang while waiting for proceedings to commence...

[doversoul1]

Despite being on the opposite side of he fence, I actually agree with Draco's points 1,2 and 3 (post#83) which are well-put.
However, I still don't have any objection in principle to Cabaret being 'done' and I did enjoy the programme and its presentation!

But it wasn’t ‘done’ as a BaL, as Draco points out that this survey was ‘without any or VERY little comparison at all’, and as a result, the final selection, the very point of BaL, was little more than formality if not pointless. It was very well done but it was not a BaL.

Another musical BaL, West Side Story, also very well presented, had a similar problem: Edward Seckerson’s survey was to compare various recordings to the Broadway original which in his opinion, was the ultimate. As a result, the final selection as such was completely pointless.

[french frank]

But it wasn’t ‘done’ as a BaL, as Draco points out that this survey was ‘without any or VERY little comparison at all’, and as a result, the final selection, the very point of BaL, was little more than formality if not pointless. It was very well done but it was not a BaL.

We could all simply accept this. But it appears to have been (even Draco agrees) a well researched, well-presented programme. Why can't it just be accepted for what it was - a departure from the usual which, as such, many people enjoyed?

Does it signal a lurch downhill for Radio 3, some sort of permanent change to BaL from which it will never be rescued? Depths to which the Third Programme would never have sunk?

[doversoul1]

We could all simply accept this. But it appears to have been (even Draco agrees) a well researched, well-presented programme. Why can't it just be accepted for what it was - a departure from the usual which, as such, many people enjoyed?

Does it signal a lurch downhill for Radio 3, some sort of permanent change to BaL from which it will never be rescued? Depths to which the Third Programme would never have sunk?

I too agree that it was well presented and no, it does not signal a lurch downhill at least directly. All the same, if the presentation does not fulfil the very point of the programme, it does not feel quite right to me, and the fact that this, and the WSS BaL are non-classical makes me wonder about things I have not yet quite worked out.

Ideally, there should be a dedicated programme or a slot in a regular programme for this sort of survey.

Many people enjoyed yes, but those who didn’t may not be voicing their thoughts. I can’t think I am the only one who was very annoyed at the original hearing.

[ardcarp]

Many people enjoyed yes, but those who didn’t may not be voicing their thoughts.

...but don't let's have a referendum, please!

[doversoul1]

...but don't let's have a referendum, please!

No, because I have no vote

[ahinton]

...but don't let's have a referendum, please!

Oh, I don't know; I wouldn't worry, since it would not be legally binding...

[Beef Oven!]

Oh, I don't know; I wouldn't worry, since it would not be legally binding...

And nothing could be effected until March 2017. Waste of time.

[Pianorak]

Would the "Hosts" be able to vote?