BaL 15.10.16 - Cabaret

[underthecountertenor]

I hope forumites will forgive me. I started to produce a list of available recordings, but I began losing the will to live, and listened to some Mozart Piano Sonatas instead.

I'll add one to the list you produced: the first complete studio recording, featuring Maria Friedman as Sally, Jonathan Pryce as the MC, Judi Dench (this time as Fräulein Schneider) and a cameo from Fred Ebb himself.

It is chiefly notable, though, for John Mark Ainsley's rendition of 'Tomorrow Belongs To Me'.

[DublinJimbo]

I thought Alan Davey was supposed to stop things like this happening. Even if I were a fan of Cabaret (I'm not) I'd consider it out of place on Building a Library.

[french frank]

I thought Alan Davey was supposed to stop things like this happening. Even if I were a fan of Cabaret (I'm not) I'd consider it out of place on Building a Library.

I think this is an interesting case. I'm not a fan of musical theatre because even the most admired have too much saccherine and sentiment. But this is a bit different. Looking at the YouTube version of Tomorrow Belongs to Me, I found it disturbing, difficult to watch. And the original book is obviously a serious piece of literature.

But what is Building a Library for? I would think first of all it's about the music. If this had the quality of music that I would expect in an opera on the same subject - and maybe by 'quality' I really DON'T mean anything more than 'style' - there would be no doubt. Cabaret is a serious work: pity about the music - which for me isn't really redeemed by some good tunes. (For me, the subject matter is too close to be anything but a novel).

[LeMartinPecheur]

An LP of the film soundtrack with Minelli was my first-ever retirement present, from WH Smith fellow employees at the end of a summer vac job aet. 18 or 19 in their Winchester record department.

Actually, they may simply have given me the copy I'd played rather a lot over the department's lo-fi - glad to be shot of it and me probably

Please don't ban me from this forum - I was young then. But the ghastly shock at the end of that lovely sentimental number "If you could see her through my eyes" still hits home. Check it out if you don't know what I'm talking about

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think this is an interesting case. I'm not a fan of musical theatre because even the most admired have too much saccherine and sentiment. But this is a bit different. Looking at the YouTube version of Tomorrow Belongs to Me, I found it disturbing, difficult to watch. And the original book is obviously a serious piece of literature.

I first saw Cabaret when the Manchester Youth Theatre produced it c.1999. My son was the musical director, and I can pretend I particularly liked the music. But the libretto is a different matter - very powerful indeed. But BaL will presumably be about the music, so it should be on Radio 2 (like the last half hour of today's "In Tune").

[french frank]

But BaL will presumably be about the music, so it should be on Radio 2 (like the last half hour of today's "In Tune").

And I wouldn't offer the argument that 'it wouldn't be on Radio 2' (which it wouldn't) since that's not a reason for it - or anything else - to be on Radio 3 (i.e. 'It's worth doing and no one else is doing it'. So what?)

But, I have to admit to having held the view that Radio 3 can cover anything as long as it does it seriously in a 'Radio 3 way'. A programme about hip hop or rap should be okay if it's examined analytically and in depth. That's different from playing hip hop or rap in order to appeal to people who like that kind of music.

Ideally, I wouldn't want to hear Edward Seckerson raving about what a great musical it is and how people should get over themselves if they don't like it. I would want someone who would look at the music first and foremost since this is about comparing the different versions.

[Petrushka]

And I wouldn't offer the argument that 'it wouldn't be on Radio 2' (which it wouldn't) since that's not a reason for it - or anything else - to be on Radio 3 (i.e. 'It's worth doing and no one else is doing it'. So what?)

But, I have to admit to having held the view that Radio 3 can cover anything as long as it does it seriously in a 'Radio 3 way'. A programme about hip hop or rap should be okay if it's examined analytically and in depth. That's different from playing hip hop or rap in order to appeal to people who like that kind of music.

Ideally, I wouldn't want to hear Edward Seckerson raving about what a great musical it is and how people should get over themselves if they don't like it. I would want someone who would look at the music first and foremost since this is about comparing the different versions.

This seems to me to be an eminently sensible way of looking at it. I'd be pretty sure that Cabaret would most certainly not be Radio 2 material these days and musicals appear to have shifted over to Radio 3 as they are now considered 'classical'. So too are military band records, once the preserve of Radio 2 for many years. So expect a BaL of Sousa marches before long! (Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea )

[teamsaint]

This seems to me to be an eminently sensible way of looking at it. I'd be pretty sure that Cabaret would most certainly not be Radio 2 material these days and musicals appear to have shifted over to Radio 3 as they are now considered 'classical'. So too are military band records, once the preserve of Radio 2 for many years. So expect a BaL of Sousa marches before long! (Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea )

used to be a staple over the PA at the footy back in the early 70's........

[Petrushka]

used to be a staple over the PA at the footy back in the early 70's........

They were played over and over at the local British Legion fete in the 1960s when I was but a nipper and I grew to love them (as I still do).

[BBMmk2]

I be quite happy to miss this one!

[jean]

...I can pretend I particularly liked the music...

But why should you feel you have to?

[underthecountertenor]

musicals appear to have shifted over to Radio 3 as they are now considered 'classical'. So too are military band records, once the preserve of Radio 2 for many years.

I'm not sure that that is the reasoning. The scope of Radio 3's remit has for many years (for as long as I can remember in fact, though in differing degrees) included music that would never be considered 'classical' (jazz, folk, rock, non-classical genres of world music etc, as well as musicals). So it's unnecessary to perform any intellectual gymnastics to justify the inclusion of musicals on the Radio 3 menu by attempting to shoehorn the genre into the term 'classical music' (which itself is of course a protean concept). If we look across the channel, we will see that France Musique has long included musicals, and French light music generally, in its repertoire (currently with the excellent 42ème Rue and Étonnez-moi, Benoît on Sunday and Saturday mornings respectively), so Radio 3 is not alone.

Of course Building a Library rarely strays from what is generally accepted as 'classical' repertoire, but given that neither the programme itself nor the BaL segment contains any reference to the term 'classical', there is no reason in principle why it shouldn't do so, proportionately in keeping with Radio 3's remit as a whole.

I said 'in principle', because I'm not sure that BaLs on musicals have worked particularly well in practice in the past. There is invariably a very limited pool of recordings, and discussion is often concentrated on the differences in content between (1) the original cast recording, (2) the film soundtrack, (3) one or two revival cast recordings and (4) a studio recording, at the expense of discussion of differences in interpretation. To a far greater extent than in most BaLs of standard 'classical' repertoire, the result is often a comparison between an apple, a pear, an orange and a banana.

[jean]

So many opera companies are doing musicals now, and doing them very well. WNO are currently touring Opera North's Kiss me Kate and it's very good indeed - no sense of them hurtling downmarket to boost audiences!

[underthecountertenor]

So many opera companies are doing musicals now, and doing them very well. WNO are currently touring Opera North's Kiss me Kate and it's very good indeed - no sense of them hurtling downmarket to boost audiences!

I heartily agree, though I'm less convinced that that's the case with ENO's recent 'star vehicle' ventures down that road (Andrew Lloyd Webber, Glenn Close....)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I still argue that Radio 2 is the place for musicals.

Apparently they do too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/f8LPxl2j092dtStdPpvxQ1/the-radio-2-audience-award-for-best-musical-2016