BaL 1.10.16 - Tallis: Spem in alium

[ardcarp]

I had hoped (see post #2) that this relatively short piece with a ditto discograpphy would result in a really detailed and well-informed survey. What a wasted opportunity. Listening again (and hoping a good lunch would have put me in a more genial frame of mind) I found the wittering and repetitiousness of both SH and AMcG even more annoying than before. SH referred several times to the 'architecture' of the piece, and surely this would have been a perfect opportunity to illustrate how several different choirs dealt with identical passages. We got almost no comparisons of this nature, something which other reviewers in much longer works manage. This is because the ratio of talk to music was just too great. For instance, how long does it take to say "Spem was unlikely to have been used in a liturgical setting"? They could have added that the text was adapted from Judith as a Sunday Matins Respond for the Sarum Rite and still have done it in far less time.

We'll forgive SH his caeli et terr-EYE, but was he the right man for the job, with or without assistance?

As far as his assertion that directors never admit to performing Spem 'in the round' (by which he presumably meant having the 8 choirs disposed around a building)...well, really?

I'll just have to stop here. Life's too short.

[Flosshilde]

As said upthread, if you are not as interested as a Renaissance music scholar in the can of worms that is the debate about how the age's music should be / is performed, then the chat was probably OK. But if you know the piece reasonably well, and anything about its background and performance probs, then the amount of time wasted in this chat-format was annoying.

As the item is suggesting or recommending a recording for a library I assume that it's aimed not at the 'Renaissance music scholar', who would probably be able to decide for themself which is the best recording (or more probably would buy them all, or a good number of them) but at the non-specialist.

[Beef Oven!]

As the item is suggesting or recommending a recording for a library I assume that it's aimed not at the 'Renaissance music scholar', who would probably be able to decide for themself which is the best recording (or more probably would buy them all, or a good number of them) but at the non-specialist.

[ardcarp]

As the item is suggesting or recommending a recording for a library I assume that it's aimed not at the 'Renaissance music scholar', who would probably be able to decide for themself which is the best recording (or more probably would buy them all, or a good number of them) but at the non-specialist.

I should think the non-specialist would have hoped to hear bigger chunks of music compared, from which to decide which sound he/she preferred.

[Barbirollians]

The original Gramophone reviewer of the Parrott version in 1989 said they preferred the Tallis Scholars as it was marginally faster, a mite higher in pitch, better blended spaciously and slightly distantly recorded, more richly varied, fiery at times, and giving out a special sense of occasion.

I think that the reviewer - probably the late Dr Mary Berry - was spot on .

[ardcarp]

Now why couldn't we have had that sort of astute observation from the pop-up box this morning? Peter Phillips and Andrew Parrott were clearly close contenders. It would have been good to hear equivalent sections sung by them to make those very points.

BTW, I had the pleasure of singing for Mary Berry...loads-a plainsong....on several occasions.

[David-G]

I enjoyed it. Possibly because I have no strong opinions (or much knowledge for that matter) about the work, I found SH’s presentation quite interesting.

I am in the same situation, and enjoyed it likewise. I was in the Hall, and enjoyed the whole "pop-up" experience.

[Thropplenoggin]

I should think the non-specialist would have hoped to hear bigger chunks of music compared, from which to decide which sound he/she preferred.

[MickyD]

Did the second KCC version from Cleobury on Argo (album cover posted by Beefy earlier on in this thread) get a mention?

[ardcarp]

I think mention was made that there were 2 versions from KCC, but that's all. SH kept on emphasising the influence of the original Willcocks version..but it was mainly talk; he could have played more extracts and compared them with other recordings to make his point. And yes, it would have been interesting to hear Cleobury.

I was in the Hall, and enjoyed the whole "pop-up" experience.

It would be interesting for many of us who have not been there to have an account of what it's like, especially during a live discussion programme. At times one hears (over the air) a background buzz and bustle, and I just wonder how easy it is for an attendee to follow what's going on.

[MickyD]

Much as I am all for opening up the R3 audience to more people, I really cannot see how either the public or a simple discussion programme such as this one can benefit from a "pop-up" experience. Surely it's best when there is live music on hand - France Musique does this very well with a small studio audience coming to see artists perform and chat about themselves.

[BBMmk2]

I prefer the scripted editions, without those annoying interruptions from AMc!

I have the taverner consort on now, yes I do rather like this but will turn to The Sixteen(Coro) later

[DracoM]

[Gabriel Jackson]

I think mention was made that there were 2 versions from KCC, but that's all. SH kept on emphasising the influence of the original Willcocks version..but it was mainly talk; he could have played more extracts and compared them with other recordings to make his point. And yes, it would have been interesting to hear Cleobury.

There are actually two Cleobury Kings recordings, the Argo one from 1990 and one on EMI released twenty years later.

[DracoM]

What continues to baffle me is - as ardcarp and others have drawn attention to - that this piece lasts in total about 10-11 mins, yet we heard precious few direct comparisons of same pasages or explanatory analysis.
BUT
they do a whole Bruckner symphony on BAL - piece lasting say 50-60 mins, and we DO get direct comparisons of the same passage.

So why not on Spem?