BaL 1.10.16 - Tallis: Spem in alium

[vinteuil]

But aren't you missing the point about conceptual art? It's the idea of putting it in a gallery that constitutes the art - who wrote the music is as irrelevant as who designed the porcelain urinal.

... the recent rave review by Waldemar Januszczak of the current RA exhibition of Abstract Expressionists - heart rather than head - reminded me why I had become so wearied with Conceptual Art.

[underthecountertenor]

You're right about that. I've witnessed it at the Hamburger Bahnhof in Berlin and at the Venice Biennale. It's a beautiful and enlightening thing, and I'm grateful that someone thought of doing it, but I find it somewhat ridiculous that Tallis isn't credited as the artist.

On topic: I'd never wish to hear it performed by more than one voice to a part!

Am I right in thinking that the singers aren't credited by name either? I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, a credit would have been nice. On the other, I would then have been identified as the person saying that I 'could murder a gin' during the 'rhubarb' section.

Although it's billed as being Salisbury Cathedral Choir, the lower parts were (inevitably) sourced in large part from elsewhere. For example, I am not, and never have been, a Salisbury Cathedral Lay Clerk.

As to the one a part, for the Cardiff, the lower parts were all taken one to a part, but the treble lines had 2 or 3 choristers on each part. I can't now remember whether they used their girls as well as their boys.

[Barbirollians]

The 1985 Tallis Scholars recording remains at the top of my list .

[BBMmk2]

I have the Tallis Scholars, The Sixteen(Coro) and La Chapelle Du Roi. It does seem a toss up between the first two mentioned.

[Richard Barrett]

Am I right in thinking that the singers aren't credited by name either? I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, a credit would have been nice. On the other, I would then have been identified as the person saying that I 'could murder a gin' during the 'rhubarb' section.

You should have got a soloist's fee for that alone! (No, I don't recall seeing a list of performers.)

[oddoneout]

Did you listen to the 'rhubarb' in the loop between the Spems? Some amusing conversation was picked up by the individual mics.

I did indeed - amusing and oh so English! I could just picture them standing around as they sorted out social engagements and cricket etc

[oddoneout]

"I can't now remember whether they used their girls as well as their boys."
The various bits of blurb in different review say girls and boys were used....shock horror!

[oddoneout]

. It's a beautiful and enlightening thing, and I'm grateful that someone thought of doing it, but I find it somewhat ridiculous that Tallis isn't credited as the artist.

But at least there is information as to what the music is and who wrote it, unlike the TV programmes which say in the credits 'composer/music composed by....' and only name the modern person, omitting any 'contributions' by those now dead.
From the reactions I saw and heard I'm not sure it mattered too much who had done what, but there were almost certainly some who might have had their views of 'modern art' broadened somewhat, and at least two who were inspired to go and find out more about 'this Tallis person' as one put it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Correct me if I'm stupid, but how do the King's Singers manage to sing in 40 parts? Even if you were to gather together every former member of the group, you still wouldn't have 40.

I'm guessing they sing with themselves, but. . .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Correct me if I'm stupid, but how do the King's Singers manage to sing in 40 parts? Even if you were to gather together every former member of the group, you still wouldn't have 40.

I'm guessing they sing with themselves, but. . .

Not unlike this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IzwkJKvH6Y

... available on this CD:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kronos-Quartet-Black-Angels/dp/B000005J0D

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And, indeed, it is so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJDLQZWKWe8

[MickyD]

I have the Stephen Cleobury, King’s College Choir on Argo.

So do I, plus the Winchester Hyperion one. Can never decide which one I prefer.

[ardcarp]

IIRC, the New College Oxford version uses a discreet organ 'continuo'.

[Nevilevelis]

Pitch annotations after a brief (incomplete) survey on iTunes.
* at pitch; unmarked - don't know (unfound)

National Youth Choir of Great Britain, Mike Brewer up a whole tone
Magnificat, Philip Cave*
The Sixteen, Harry Christophers (Coro) up a whole tone
The Sixteen, Harry Christophers (Chandos)
Pro Cantione Antiqua, Mark Brown*
The Cardinall's Musick, Andrew Carwood
Choir of King's College, Cambridge, Stephen Cleobury*
La Chappelle du Roi, Alistair Dixon*
New College Choir, Oxford, Edward Higginbottom
Winchester Cathedral Choir, Winchester College Quiristers & Vocal Arts Chorus, David Hill*
I Fagiolini, Robert Hollingworth* [with instruments]
The King's Singers down a whole tone
Cambridge Voices, Ian de Massini (arr Massini)
Huelgas-Ensemble, Paul Van Nevel*
Katarina Girls Choir, Katharina Boys' Choir, Capella Catharinae, Katarina Chamber Choir, Katarina Male Choir, Lars-Ewe Nilsson (download)
Taverner Choir, Andrew Parrott up a semi-tone with discreet instrumental doubling of the bass lines
The Tallis Scholars, Peter Phillips (Gimell 1985) up a whole tone
Oxford Camerata, Jeremy Summerly*
Morley College Choir, Michael Tippett*
Cantillation, Anthony Walker*
Choir of King's College, Cambridge, Cambridge University Choir, Sir David Willcocks up a semi-tone
The Clerkes of Oxenford, David Wulstan (download) Scholars, Peter Phillips (Gimell 1985)
Oxford Camerata, Jeremy Summerly*
Morley College Choir, Michael Tippett
Cantillation, Anthony Walker
Choir of King's College, Cambridge, Cambridge University Choir, Sir David Willcocks
The Clerkes of Oxenford, David Wulstan (download)

[ardcarp]

Well done for your investigations NevilV. However, I hope SH is not going to be too prescriptive about pitch in the Review. No-one has the faintest idea what pitch would have prevailed in Tudor times. There has been much research into historical pitch, and whilst some idea can be got for Baroque and Classical times (existing instruments, organ pipes etc), conjecture is the only weapon for the Renaissance or earlier. My own conjecture is that there was no concept of a fixed pitch in our modern sense, and that pragmatism (e.g. range of voices available) ruled the day. The Tallis Lamentations are an excellent example. They work extremely well at a low pitch (i.e. altos on top) as the bottom three parts have a deep sonority, but IMO they are equally valid at a higher pitch with sops on top when you want to perform it with today's 'normal' chamber choir. The old Percy Buck edition is fine, IMVO, and can be used either up, down or as printed!