BaL 1.10.16 - Tallis: Spem in alium

[oddoneout]

I was fortunate enough to experience Janet Cardiff's sound installation of this in St Peter Parmentergate(one of Norwich's many redundant medieval churches) as part of the Norfolk and Norwich Festival in 2005. A large empty light filled space in which one could walk around to hear different parts or just stand and listen, it was quite magical, not least because the age of the church and the acoustic were 'right' for the piece. I listened twice through one day and returned for another 'immersion'.

[pastoralguy]

I was fortunate enough to experience Janet Cardiff's sound installation of this in St Peter Parmentergate(one of Norwich's many redundant medieval churches) as part of the Norfolk and Norwich Festival in 2005. A large empty light filled space in which one could walk around to hear different parts or just stand and listen, it was quite magical, not least because the age of the church and the acoustic were 'right' for the piece. I listened twice through one day and returned for another 'immersion'.

I saw something about that on tv and really wishes I could have visited. It looked very interesting.

[Nevilevelis]

Anyone sung it in a church service? I have - a wedding about 7 years ago. They paid for it, they got it! The pedigree in choir one was remarkable!

[underthecountertenor]

I was fortunate enough to experience Janet Cardiff's sound installation of this in St Peter Parmentergate(one of Norwich's many redundant medieval churches) as part of the Norfolk and Norwich Festival in 2005. A large empty light filled space in which one could walk around to hear different parts or just stand and listen, it was quite magical, not least because the age of the church and the acoustic were 'right' for the piece. I listened twice through one day and returned for another 'immersion'.

I'm in that! Recorded at Salisbury. Should never have agreed to a one-off fee.

Did you listen to the 'rhubarb' in the loop between the Spems? Some amusing conversation was picked up by the individual mics.

[underthecountertenor]

(One of these days I must go to Ottawa to hear it in the Rideau Chapel: http://www.cardiffmiller.com/artworks/inst/motet.html)

[Beef Oven!]

I have the Stephen Cleobury, King’s College Choir on Argo.

[Richard Barrett]

Should never have agreed to a one-off fee.

You're right about that. I've witnessed it at the Hamburger Bahnhof in Berlin and at the Venice Biennale. It's a beautiful and enlightening thing, and I'm grateful that someone thought of doing it, but I find it somewhat ridiculous that Tallis isn't credited as the artist.

On topic: I'd never wish to hear it performed by more than one voice to a part! I like van Nevel's recording and also that by Philip Cave.

[jean]

We had it at Tate Liverpool.

but I find it somewhat ridiculous that Tallis isn't credited as the artist.

But aren't you missing the point about conceptual art? It's the idea of putting it in a gallery that constitutes the art - who wrote the music is as irrelevant as who designed the porcelain urinal.

[pastoralguy]

I'm sure this was a set work when I was a student back in the 80's. Am I correct in recalling that the original manuscript was without bar lines ?!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Talking of the score . . .

http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/images/5/55/Tallis_Spem_in_alium_full_score_PML.pdf

[Richard Barrett]

But aren't you missing the point about conceptual art?

No. Duchamp's urinal was an anonymous everyday object conceptualised into an artwork. Tallis's composition was already a widely-known artwork. I think that's enough difference to merit some kind of acknowledgement. In saying so I'm not belittling Janet Cardiff's contribution to it.

[Nevilevelis]

I'm sure this was a set work when I was a student back in the 80's. Am I correct in recalling that the original manuscript was without bar lines ?!

That was the norm for this period, but I haven't seen the original manuscript. Singers is Tallis's day were perfectly happy to sing from part scores, although even for them this would have been a stretch, and one wonders if there were at least a few signum congruentiae (a sign to show where the voices come together) to aid reh.! Someone will clarify. Some modern editions group the choirs in scores of one or two numerically consecutive choirs. The full score is beautiful to look at but not entirely practical for performance. It depends on the skills of the ensemble.

NVV

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Talking of the score . . .

http://www2.cpdl.org/wiki/images/5/5..._score_PML.pdf

- the A4 version that I use: quite readable, and much more practicable than the Ordnance Survey map alternative(s).

[jean]

No. Duchamp's urinal was an anonymous everyday object conceptualised into an artwork. Tallis's composition was already a widely-known artwork. I think that's enough difference to merit some kind of acknowledgement.

The quilt that Rauschenberg modified was an already-existing artwork (though admittedly not widely known) and nobody thinks the original quiltmaker deserves an acknowledgment:



(Well I do, actually. But she never gets one.)

[Richard Barrett]

(Well I do, actually. But she never gets one.)

There you go.