BaL 18.06.16 - Mahler: Symphony no. 5

[Barbirollians]

A disappointing BAL - Barbirolli appeared to be ignored as was the 1947 complete Walter . Worthy winner though. These twofers seem particularly ill-suited to cases where there are masses of recordings .

[Bryn]

Does the Death In Venice association with the adagietto still have any relevance / resonance ? It is almost a vintage movie by now. Same with calling that Mozart piano concerto Elvira Madigan. About as much relevance as Brief Encounter is to Rachmaninov.

I have a feeling that the out of context performance at Robert Kennedy's funeral may have had more impact on the trend towards slower and slower tempi for the Adagietto.

[HighlandDougie]

A disappointing BAL - Barbirolli appeared to be ignored as was the 1947 complete Walter . Worthy winner though. These twofers seem particularly ill-suited to cases where there are masses of recordings .

The same might be said about Kubelik. Maybe it's because I dislike the Bernstein performance (fine playing, excellent recording but such self-indulgence) but I found myself wholly out of sympathy with William Myval's blithe justification for the Bernsteinian approach ("times change, music changes along with them"). After a run of very good BaLs, this was a reminder of how this format can render the slot as a not very informative chat.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And Bernstein (Vienna) it is.

As given away half-an-hour earlier on the Record Review website!

(oh dear - I feel that I'm being the first person to shout 'bravo' before the last notes die away)

Well - saves me making more demands on my wallet. But I can imagine the Leinsdorf will be finding its way onto my shelves before too long.

[Bryn]

The same might be said about Kubelik. ...

Indeed, This should surely have been in the running:

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Does the Death In Venice association with the adagietto still have any relevance / resonance ? It is almost a vintage movie by now. Same with calling that Mozart piano concerto Elvira Madigan. About as much relevance as Brief Encounter is to Rachmaninov.

- that occurred to me, too.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I found myself wholly out of sympathy with William Myval's blithe justification for the Bernsteinian approach ("times change, music changes along with them").

Yes - that was bal-derdash, wasn't it; especially from someone whose ideas about the work seemed themselves stuck in the 1980s! (I speak as a Lennie fan - those silhouette caricatures of Mahler conducting always remind me of Bernstein.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Indeed, This should surely have been in the running:

[pastoralguy]

A disappointing BAL - Barbirolli appeared to be ignored as was the 1947 complete Walter . Worthy winner though. These twofers seem particularly ill-suited to cases where there are masses of recordings .

To be honest, much as I love the Barbirolli recording and it would probably be my favourite, it's not without its faults. There's some wonky ensemble in the first scherzo, iirc, and the timps are very late on a couple of occasions where they should be on the beat.

Despite those tiny faults, which I quite enjoy, it's not really a 'Library' choice.

Maybe more of a 'Connoisseurs' choice...

[Petrushka]

How I wish that Bernstein's 1987 Prom performance given a day or two away from the commercial recording could be released. I was present and my own off air recording bit the dust long ago. If ever there was a BBC Legends this was it.

Never understood the praise for the Barbirolli, PG, sorry. Missing horn notes, finale far too slow, it's one of my least favourite and rarely gets played. Perhaps one for the great CD cull when it comes.

[ardcarp]

For me the most astonishing thing to emerge from this (otherwise slightly annoying) BAL was to hear the Adagietto at Bruno Walther and Erich Leinsdorf speed. Transformed from grief-stricken anguished trauer-musik to a rather beautiful, tender love tribute. (Walther recording much 'cleaned up'.) I assume Norrington would have done the same sort of thing.

As given away half-an-hour earlier on the Record Review website!

...also hinted at when the reviewer (for once) disagreed with the presenter and said he didn't mind the harp arpeggios being reduced to mere single-note plonks at Bernstein's speed!

[pastoralguy]

Never understood the praise for the Barbirolli, PG, sorry. Missing horn notes, finale far too slow, it's one of my least favourite and rarely gets played. Perhaps one for the great CD cull when it comes.

I suspect the initial appeal for me was that it was one of the first budget price CDs to be released back when I was an impoverished student with an expensive cd habit! (Mother -: "Isn't it time you bought some new clothes instead of yet another cd?". Circa 1985)

I was very into Mahler 5 at that point and I played that JB cd over and over again.

[DracoM]

For me the most astonishing thing to emerge from this (otherwise slightly annoying) BAL was to hear the Adagietto at Bruno Walther and Erich Leinsdorf speed. Transformed from grief-stricken anguished trauer-musik to a rather beautiful, tender love tribute. (Walther recording much 'cleaned up'.) I assume Norrington would have done the same sort of thing.

...also hinted at when the reviewer (for once) disagreed with the presenter and said he didn't mind the harp arpeggios being reduced to mere single-note plonks at Bernstein's speed!

Couldn't agree more!
The lachrymose replaced by the actively reflective.
Tiny aside by reviewer - Mahler would barely recognise what has happened to his symphony since that film, and compared the speeds of Mahler's own performances to many present day renderings...... For me, the damage the film has done .....hmm..........

And can someone please tell me how on earth Haitink got into ANY short list for this programme once, let alone twice and more, given what we heard. Crumbs.

[Petrushka]

Does the Death In Venice association with the adagietto still have any relevance / resonance ? It is almost a vintage movie by now. Same with calling that Mozart piano concerto Elvira Madigan. About as much relevance as Brief Encounter is to Rachmaninov.

Both the Death in Venice and Brief Encounter examples have cast very long shadows. Recordings of Mahler 5 made since the Visconti film show this all too clearly and a trend was set that has never fully been extinguished. The 1947 Walter was my very first Mahler 5 recording ever so I was used to his speed and it does, in any case, sound so absolutely 'right'.

Is the Leinsdorf recording nla?

[seabright]

Did the Rudolf Schwarz / LSO 'Everest' CD get a mention? It seems to have received some good reviews in the past but surely he wasn't knighted, as per the CD cover shown here? ...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/may00/Mahler5Schwarz.htm