BaL 14.05.16 - Haydn: String Quartet in G, Op 77, no 1

[Lento]

I do find Ms Gill one of the worst offenders for skating through phrases at barely intelligible speed - I was listening in perfect conditions and still had to piece together sentences in my brain by supplying some of the last syllables she swallowed as she tore to the next full stop.

Well, I was listening in rather less than perfect conditions, so you can imagine how much went over my head. For what it's worth, I think Ms Gill has an appalling and unengaging delivery style, though a transcript would doubtlessly reveal a very well-reasoned and interesting argument. Oh well, I can always play the podcast at half speed!

[Beef Oven!]

I listened to this BaL on a podcast transferred to my DAP, while tidying up the kitchen and doing a bit of hoovering (I'd like to break free from these chores) and I must say that it was the most enjoyable BaL ever, IMV.

Yes, it had something to do with this extraordinarily good music, but the lion's share of the credit must go to Caroline Gill. Not just because she is in complete command of the facts, totally understands and loves the music and is able to present ideas in an uncluttered direct way; but because her accent and diction (is that the word I want?) is so clear and intelligible.

I did not have to rewind once - normally a BaL take me about 90 minutes to listen through!

I wonder, in these days of such a mish-mash of broadcasting English, we could have more presenters like Caroline. Ok, I'm a product of the BBC's paternalistic days (not gone, btw) and heard my broadcasters is wonderful, clipped, posh clear English, but please can we have more like Caroline?

[MickyD]

I'm not a nerd

I didn't say you were - but maybe your friends think so!

[MickyD]

It's been done before - Bach Violin and Oboe Concerto BaL this year. I'm glad others noticed the strange acoustic - I thought something had gone wrong with my speakers.

It sounds as if it has been recorded in a swimming pool.

[Lawrence]

I have and greatly enjoy both the Buchbergers and the Kodalys (and if anybody else is thinking of getting rid of a complete set of these splendid performances and recordings, I'd be delighted to welcome such a set into my collection!) Looking forward to this BaL - IIRC, Caroline Gill has done some very perceptive reviews in the past

I have all the Naxos recordings by the Kodalys and have always loved them, but in view of the BAL recommendation and the favourable comments on the Forum, I have ordered the 10 CD set by Quatour Mosaiques. Sadly they don't seem to have recorded all of the Haydn quartets.

[Bryn]

I have all the Naxos recordings by the Kodalys and have always loved them, but in view of the BAL recommendation and the favourable comments on the Forum, I have ordered the 10 CD set by Quatour Mosaiques. Sadly they don't seem to have recorded all of the Haydn quartets.

Console yourself with the knowledge that the London Haydn Quartet have recorded (to considerable acclaim, not least on this forum) the quartets not recorded by the Quatuor Mosaïques. The LHQ have only got as far as Op. 50 to date. Had they reached Op. 77 I feel confident they would have been in the running for first choice.

[waldo]

The LHQ have only got as far as Op. 50 to date. Had they reached Op. 77 I feel confident they would have been in the running for first choice.

I really like and admire the LHQ recordings, but I am not sure I could give them first place here. I find them a bit too dour and humourless, overall. Not quite enough bounce or wit. I am not convinced that the really project the individual character of the works. They also take quite a severe line as far as vibrato goes - especially by contemporary HIP standards. But they are beautiful recordings and there is much to admire in them all the same.........

[Bryn]

... They also take quite a severe line as far as vibrato goes ...

Probably one reason I find their approach so attractive. I was won over to vibrato-free string playing on first hearing Cage's String Quartet in Four Parts, around half a century ago. In Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. I prefer very sparing and considered application of vibrato. There are far too many who seem to think that heavy vibrato equates to the communication of emotional depth.

[ahinton]

There are far too many who seem to think that heavy vibrato equates to the communication of emotional depth.

There are such - but it can equate thereto although, just as there's absolutely no guarantee that it will, it;s also not the onlky way by any means to achieve such depth - and, in any case, there's light, moderate, "heavy" and "too heavy"; eschewing vibrato altogether as of habit and in all circumstances and contexts seems to me to be a potentially, if not actually, suspect exercise...

[waldo]

Probably one reason I find their approach so attractive. I was won over to vibrato-free string playing on first hearing Cage's String Quartet in Four Parts, around half a century ago. In Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. I prefer very sparing and considered application of vibrato. There are far too many who seem to think that heavy vibrato equates to the communication of emotional depth.

I am certainly with you as far as heavy vibrato is concerned. For me, nothing is more off-putting. There are many highly respected quartets I simply cannot stomach as a result. No vibrato or next-to-no vibrato can been immensely attractive, but on balance I think I prefer the kind you get with the Mosaiques - sparing, judicious and highly considered, but by no means excessive or always present. (I seem to remember you also liking the Eroica quartet - another rather severe no-vibrato group........)

But I wouldn't want to overdo my slight reservations with regard to the LHQ. We are lucky to have them and I certainly intend to collect all their releases as they appear. A pity someone like them can't do the full Beethoven set...........Surely there is a market for that?

[Bryn]

... A pity someone like them can't do the full Beethoven set...........Surely there is a market for that?

Oh I really hope the LHQ go on to do just that, preferably starting with Op. 135 and working back. There again, I have some respect for the view that especially the late quartets are possibly more suited to later instrument technology and playing techniques, though not injudiciously applied vibrato. I'm thinking here of the likes of Brooklyn Rider, whose Op. 131 I find quite stunningly beautiful.

[waldo]

There again, I have some respect for the view that especially the late quartets are possibly more suited to later instrument technology and playing techniques, though not injudiciously applied vibrato. I'm thinking here of the likes of Brooklyn Rider, whose Op. 131 I find quite stunningly beautiful.

I haven't heard of Brooklyn Rider. Listening now - it sounds stunning.

As for instrument technology, did things really change that much between, say, 1800 and 1830? Strings were still gut, as far as I know..........Or do you mean, Beethoven's late quartets are more suited to developments that took place years after his death?

[Bryn]

I haven't heard of Brooklyn Rider. Listening now - it sounds stunning.

As for instrument technology, did things really change that much between, say, 1800 and 1830? Strings were still gut, as far as I know..........Or do you mean, Beethoven's late quartets are more suited to developments that took place years after his death?

Indeed, it's the later reinforcements to the neck and the stronger sound output of later developments I was thinking of, my thoughts possibly coloured by the famous quip in response to Schuppanzigh, though that was in respect of Op. 59 No. 1, not the late quartets.

[waldo]

I see. I hadn't really thought about this aspect of the music before........

[kindofblue]

One is slightly concerned, Caliban-san, about the Haydn string quartet gap on your shelves - much pleasure awaits you in the coming years. I beg to differ on the subject of T' Lyndsays, I saw them on many occasions. Although the heavy breathing on recordings is, I agree, a tad wearisome, when seen live the physicality of the playing, especially by the recently departed Peter Cropper, made for quite a spectacle. It was not in the least affected, he and the others literally threw themselves into it. The only live disappointment from them was playing Shostakovich 8; one might of thought that their approach would suit such a heart-on-sleeve piece, but it fell very flat indeed. It wasn't merely restrained, just plain under-played.