BaL 27.02.16 - Mozart: Requiem Mass in D minor K.626

[Barbirollians]

Many thanks for another heroic research effort, EA.

I think this Gresham lecture by the late lamented Christopher Hogwood is worth hearing (from about half an hour in, discussing the Mozart Requiem). The brief Q&A session is also worth hearing:

http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/fakes-completions-and-the-art-of-borrowing

It's a pity that CH did not give a complete lecture on the completions of the work, which would have been interesting for discussions about the non-Mozart sections.

I have never been enamoured of the Sussmayr completion and always felt an indefinable sense of disappointment at how the work progressed after the wonderful opening movements. For that reason I don't go to concerts where the Sussmayr version is programmed and never choose to listen to that version on CD (at least, beyond the Lacrimosa). I'm always interested in completions by others, but all of them have the problem that the composer of the added sections is not Mozart - at least with the Mahler 10th symphony performing versions there is a lot of Mahler in the unfinished movements.

This will be an incredibly difficult BaL, not just because of the number of recordings but because of the issues surrounding the different completions.

How do you know that there is no Mozart in the Sussmayr completed sections ? I have read no such categorical evidence ?

[DracoM]

<< This will be an incredibly difficult BaL, not just because of the number of recordings but because of the issues surrounding the different completions. >>

So agree - real poisoned chalice stuff.

[aeolium]

How do you know that there is no Mozart in the Sussmayr completed sections ? I have read no such categorical evidence ?

Sorry, by "non-Mozart sections", I meant the ones primarily composed or put together by others - possibly based on notes or instructions from Mozart but the evidence is inconclusive (that's one reason why I would like to have heard Hogwood discuss all the sections not completely written by Mozart). Hogwood incidentally seems to have been fairly scathing about the Sussmayr completion.

[Barbirollians]

Sorry, by "non-Mozart sections", I meant the ones primarily composed or put together by others - possibly based on notes or instructions from Mozart but the evidence is inconclusive (that's one reason why I would like to have heard Hogwood discuss all the sections not completely written by Mozart). Hogwood incidentally seems to have been fairly scathing about the Sussmayr completion.

A lot of people are - but Sussmayr has the great advantages over all the more modern completions of 1 knowing Mozart and 2 living in 1791 with ears unaffected by the music since .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

How do you know that there is no Mozart in the Sussmayr completed sections ? I have read no such categorical evidence ?

I'm saying nuttin' - except that my attitude to Sussmayr is the same as the one you expressed in #49.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just over half an hour to go.

It should be an interesting BaL.


(In view of Sea Drift being short and simple, I've withdrawn my resignation.)

[vinteuil]

Just over half an hour to go.

It should be an interesting BaL.


(In view of Sea Drift being short and simple, I've withdrawn my resignation.)

.

.

[french frank]

Sorry, by "non-Mozart sections", I meant the ones primarily composed or put together by others - possibly based on notes or instructions from Mozart but the evidence is inconclusive (that's one reason why I would like to have heard Hogwood discuss all the sections not completely written by Mozart). Hogwood incidentally seems to have been fairly scathing about the Sussmayr completion.

The Sanctus, Benedictus and Agnus Dei are the ones by Süssmayr alone, with nothing, apparently, by Mozart. Thereafter, the Communio/Lux Aeterna are based on Mozart's Introitus and Kyrie, which seems to me to be a satisfying way to end the work. But, to each his own …

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh dear. Not a good start - Mozart's death has just been brought forward to 5th September, 1791.

In which case, he must have composed even less of his Requiem than we thought. And maybe, therefore, Sussmayr had to complete Die Zauberflote and the Clarinet Concerto.

(Anything's possible with the clarinet concerto, as no manuscript of the full work survives.)

[verismissimo]

Elsie Morison, 'that fine ENGLISH soprano.' Certainly fine, but born and raised in Ballarat and Melbourne. One of Australia's finest!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I first had the Karajan/Wilma Lipp on LP. The soprano in question sounds very insecure, despite having been a superb Queen of the Night.

Ah! Just confirmed!

[Barbirollians]

Ah! Just confirmed!

Dreadful wasn't it ? I remember producing a play at university where the director had wanted a bit of the requiem playing in a scene . The member of the crew doing the sound got the Karajan out of the library after the technical rehearsal I replaced it with a bit of my just bought Gardiner !

Edit - rather sad to hear Lipp so all over the place - in her earlier days she turned out not only superb performances as the Queen of the. night but a sensational Laughing Song for Krauss

[Barbirollians]

The Sanctus, Benedictus and Agnus Dei are the ones by Süssmayr alone, with nothing, apparently, by Mozart. Thereafter, the Communio/Lux Aeterna are based on Mozart's Introitus and Kyrie, which seems to me to be a satisfying way to end the work. But, to each his own …

I think for the reasons discussed above that it is far too categorical to say there is no Mozart in those three movements . As Kenyon's has just confirmed I cannot imagine anyone but mozart coming up with the theme for the Benedictus.

[verismissimo]

The recommended Butt recording sounds a bit ordinary, even flaccid, to my ears... (As was his Messiah of a few years ago.)

[french frank]

As Kenyon's has just confirmed I cannot imagine anyone but mozart coming up with the theme for the Benedictus.

I'm happy to believe it! There are different issues that could be considered (which completion, which performance, audio quality); in a way I'm happy with a musically 'lesser' completion anyway. Trying to equal Mozart is either good pastiche or too different to fit in with the rest. Sound fellow, Kenyon