BaL 23.01.16 - Debussy: Trois Nocturnes

[Beef Oven!]

Perhaps Monteux and co. were trying to recreate the version given at the works first performance. The public had to wait some 10 months or so to hear a performance including Sirènes, or perhaps there was no chorus available at the time of the recording.

More likely is that Monteux, along with many others, thought Sirènes, which the composer tinkered with more than just about anything else he wrote, not up to scratch.

Thanks Bryn, you've planted the idea in my head and ruined Sirènes for me

I'd never really thought about it before, but Sirènes is possibly inferior and unnecessary.

[gurnemanz]

Thanks Bryn, you've planted the idea in my head and ruined Sirènes for me

I'd never really thought about it before, but Sirènes is possibly inferior and unnecessary.

I've got two recordings:
The well-known Haitink, beautifully played and about the right pace for me.
And I've just listened to Toscanini with NBC Orch whose clouds zip by exhilaratingly but probably rather too speedily for repeated enjoyment (5.35 mins must be one of the snappiest timings around). The Fêtes also gallop along and the Sirènes are totally absent - no ladies available on the day or Toscy thought along the lines of Beefy.

[cloughie]

Perhaps Monteux and co. were trying to recreate the version given at the works first performance. The public had to wait some 10 months or so to hear a performance including Sirènes, or perhaps there was no chorus available at the time of the recording.

More likely is that Monteux, along with many others, thought Sirènes, which the composer tinkered with more than just about anything else he wrote, not up to scratch.

I would go for the no chorus booked bit and he probably knocked off 1 & 2 in spare studio time - he had no qualms about Sirenes in his BSO recording years before. I always feel sorry he didn't record La Mer with the LSO.

[verismissimo]

I've been listening to Munch with the French National Radio Orchestra on an ancient Concert Hall LP from 1969. Probably never reissued on CD, but full of energy, not the washy impressionism that we sometimes get in this music.

[verismissimo]

Of course, that Munch has been issued on CD. Here it is at £125+:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mer-Debussy/dp/B000009K7K/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1453059687&sr=1-5&keywords=munch+la+mer

[HighlandDougie]

Of course, that Munch has been issued on CD. Here it is at £125+:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mer-Debussy/...s=munch+la+mer

The CD reissue jettisons poor old Sirènes, presumably to accommodate the parts of Images which Munch recorded with the same forces at around the same time. The original LP (Guilde Internationale de Disque in France; Concert Hall in the UK), as I'm sure Verismissimo will confirm, has the complete work.

[verismissimo]

The CD reissue jettisons poor old Sirènes, presumably to accommodate the parts of Images which Munch recorded with the same forces at around the same time. The original LP (Guilde Internationale de Disque in France; Concert Hall in the UK), as I'm sure Verismissimo will confirm, has the complete work.

Yes indeed, although irritatingly split across sides.

[MickyD]

It'd be nice to have a version from Roth and his Les Siècles orchestra.

[Beef Oven!]

I am looking forward to this Bal very much.
A first look on the shelf shows:

Abbado BPO
Boulez Cleveland
Monteux LSO (Nuage & Fetes only)
Haitink - Concertcertgecertgebgebouwwow
Rahbari - BRT orchestra & Chorus

I fancy getting the Martinon, but purely to augment the Ravel set I bought in the summer, so I might desist here.

I also have the Charles Dutoit, Montreal CDs.

[visualnickmos]

Final choice: Abbado and the Berliner Philharmoniker - 2001, DG

I'd actually like to hear his earlier Boston recording from the 1970s; my gut feeling seems to be telling me that that would be the one to 'go for' - Berlin being perhaps a bit too much of a perfectionist's choice......

I liked the extract of Jan Pascal Tortellier with the Ulster Orchestra - maybe worth a 'punt' - (OK - wrong bit of Ireland, and it's old money! )

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I greatly enjoyed this BaL - JJ is one of those reviewers who never makes snide remarks about recordings he doesn't care for, instead always trying to find the positive in what he hears. He obviously disapproved of the tempo droop in Barenboim's Fetes, but pointed out the "drama" that resulted that the conductor was intending. This then put in balance by the approval he communicated for Haitink's keeping the momentum going.

No faux-chumminess, not leaden-footed "humour", no "gushing", just quiet, infectious intellectual enthusiasm. And he "sold" the Tortellier recording to me, too - something I wouldn't have thought probable yesterday.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Well, our reviewer didn't appear to be with Bryn in finding Sirenes to be of lower quality. But something else I didn't follow - no doubt I was concentrating too much on my breakfast - was what he considered to be amiss with Haitink's Dutch mermaids.

I shall I think stay content with that one, Martinon and Giulini. Plus the first two from Monteux which, I'm grateful to have been reminded by forumites, were lurking among my LPs.

A lucid and interesting BaL nonetheless.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But something else I didn't follow - no doubt I was concentrating too much on my breakfast - was what he considered to be amiss with Haitink's Dutch mermaids.

Essentially - not sexy enough (they didn't lure you from your cornflakes, for example).

A lucid and interesting BaL nonetheless.

[HighlandDougie]

Agree with everything already said - and it was good to be reminded of Jean Fournet's version, last heard on a Supraphon LP a very long time ago. A bit unfair on Stéphane Dénève for being too "ascetic" in sticking to the score (I quite like my Debussy like that) and on Haitink for his chorus being too ethereal and distant but no-one should feel short-changed with the winner.

[Bryn]

Agree with everything already said - and it was good to be reminded of Jean Fournet's version, last heard on a Supraphon LP a very long time ago. A bit unfair on Stéphane Dénève for being too "ascetic" in sticking to the score (I quite like my Debussy like that) and on Haitink for his chorus being too ethereal and distant but no-one should feel short-changed with the winner.

The Czech PO/Fournet recording was my introduction to the work (17/6 for the single disc gatefold album), and I have just downloaded a digitised version of it as a reminder. Well up there with the those in the short-list, I reckon.