BaL 9.01.16 - Music by Henri Dutilleux

[ahinton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLRlpB6PvD8

... not sure if this is "conventional" tonality (or whose "conventions" they are if it is).

I've heard this before. What struck me when first I did so is that it sunds just as characteristically Schönbergian as does the version that we usually hear...

[ahinton]

Decent survey from Ivan Hewitt, but he didn't mention Morlot.... he didn't....mention...Morlot...!
(Dontcha just hate it when reviewers ignore your pet sounds? Outrageous! .)
Trouble is, they really are exceptional, and the concertos as fine as any - technically and musically an advance on several others I have here...
No.1/Tout un Monde was released on Seattle Symphony Media in 2014, No.2/Tree of Dreams in August 2015, the latter a Gramophone Editor's Choice in October. I doubt Record Review have a team of researchers to help him but it's his job to know these things... although, given his dismissive comments re. la haute-fidélité a few years ago, maybe they were just too beautiful for him to bear....

Strange situation with the Erato & DG boxes, so much duplication. Shame though, that Erato chose Munch for Le Double. As I said earlier, it isn't his finest hour. You'll need another (Morlot truly makes you feel you're hearing it for the first time - and it's my 5th recording). Jarvi (Gramophone 3/2015) is excellent in the 1st, but the DG pairing of Martinon and Bychkov for the symphonies looks stronger (I've never heard the rare & legendary Martinon 1st). Otherwise it's the usual big-box problem: good enough (better value if you're drawn more to chamber/instrumental than I am), but better individual performances (sometimes far better) can be found separately. Good to hear the fine Graf/Aquitaine series recommended (but has the excellent Arte Nova sound survived transfer to Sony?), but Hewitt should have brought Tortelier/Chandos back in for a longer comparison since the sets are both fairly comprehensive mature orchestral surveys.

(Is it too pedantic to complain about pronunciation? Hewitt really did say 'tout un monde lontwan" .... editors, producers, )

It's good to read so many positive comments about Le Roi Henri here, especially your detailed ones that suggest that you'd have been the ideal candidate to present a 2 hour long conspectus of his recorded history!

Yes, I, too, cringed at "lontwan" (at least he stopped short of saying "long twang"); I suspect that this was an unedited slip of the tongue, however, as most of the rest of IH's French pronunciation was borderline acceptable. I do agree that he did a pretty good job of the survey, though.

I've long felt that Dutilleux is a better composer than Boulez and has more real depth of thought to offer in his music. So now I'll just sit back and wait for forumistas to throw whatever they choose at me, although I hope that, whatever it might be, it will include plenty of Dutilleux scores and recordings...

He has never had the recognition that he deserves, I believe; yes, he is widely admired, but the kind of recognition to which I refer is that which is deservedly accordable to one who is possibly the greatest French composer since Ravel...

[BBMmk2]

Oh dear! This puts me in a dilemma! The Erato or the DG, and maybe, that recording JLW mentioned?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It is perfectly possible to devise a 12-note row consisting of nice triads and use it to make a conventionally tonal piece. This used to be a lark of naughty undergraduates, as opposed to the endeavour of serious serialists who arranged the semitones as atonally as possible.

Ah, you remember me.

[Black Swan]

I am having a listen to the 5 CD set of Dutilleux from Erato which predates the current box sets. I have read all the comments and am wondering if the recordings JLW mentions by Morlot and the Seattle Symphony are a possibility to update the sound. I think that sound is very important for Dutilleux. I will compare the newer recording I have by Salonen of 'Tout un Monde Lointain' and the Shadows of Time. I am also interested in the Renee Fleming recording of the final song cycle 'Le temps l'horloge'. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've heard this before. What struck me when first I did so is that it sunds just as characteristically Schönbergian as does the version that we usually hear...

Yes - Schönberg's tonal conventions, then (as found in his practice up to about 1906) - and they certainly sunded!

[HighlandDougie]

he didn't....mention...Morlot...!
(Dontcha just hate it when reviewers ignore your pet sounds? Outrageous! .)
Trouble is, they really are exceptional, and the concertos as fine as any - technically and musically an advance on several others I have here...
No.1/Tout un Monde was released on Seattle Symphony Media in 2014, No.2/Tree of Dreams in August 2015, the latter a Gramophone Editor's Choice in October.

I have both the DG box and the Erato one. That should have been enough Dutilleux to last a long time but Jayne's advocacy of the Morlot recordings and their easy availability on Qobuz as Hi-Res downloads were too much of a temptation. The recording quality is stunningly good - I thought the recentish Paavo Järvi disc was pretty well recorded but these SSO performances are on a different level. The performances are of a similar quality. Morlot really "gets" Dutilleux's sound world - and the orchestral playing is first rate. I'm just as puzzled as Jayne by IH not seeming to know of their existence. I can't believe that he wouldn't have featured them in his otherwise excellent BaL. I'm going to hear Leonidas Kavakos on Wednesday in "L'Arbre des Songes" at the Barbican which is going to have to be pretty exceptional to be as good as the Augustin Hadelich version in this set from Seattle.

[Serial_Apologist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLRlpB6PvD8

... not sure if this is "conventional" tonality (or whose "conventions" they are if it is).

How utterly fascinating! One reads others saying that through all the changes his music underwent, the character of Schoenberg's melodic invention remained unchanged in all essentials. I never knew about this re-harmonisation before today, but it certainly seems to bear this out.

Any minute now I shall wake up, and discover this has all been a dream!

[Serial_Apologist]

Ah, you remember me.

I think ardy was referring to Berg!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

One reads others saying that through all the changes his music underwent, the character of Schoenberg's melodic invention remained unchanged in all essentials.

There's also a rhythmic "tick" that runs through Schoenberg's career that features in the melody of the Variations: ti-Da-di Dah-dah. It's there in Verklaerte Nacht; P&M; the Piano and Violin Concertos; M&A ... virtually everywhere - and always to shape the contour of a falling melodic phrase!

I think ardy was referring to Berg!

[jayne lee wilson]

I have both the DG box and the Erato one. That should have been enough Dutilleux to last a long time but Jayne's advocacy of the Morlot recordings and their easy availability on Qobuz as Hi-Res downloads were too much of a temptation. The recording quality is stunningly good - I thought the recentish Paavo Järvi disc was pretty well recorded but these SSO performances are on a different level. The performances are of a similar quality. Morlot really "gets" Dutilleux's sound world - and the orchestral playing is first rate. I'm just as puzzled as Jayne by IH not seeming to know of their existence. I can't believe that he wouldn't have featured them in his otherwise excellent BaL. I'm going to hear Leonidas Kavakos on Wednesday in "L'Arbre des Songes" at the Barbican which is going to have to be pretty exceptional to be as good as the Augustin Hadelich version in this set from Seattle.

Lovely meeting of minds HD (again).
But...you need another one :

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/henri-dutilleux-orchestral-works-vol-1-orchestre-national-de-bordeaux-aquitaine-hans-graf/0743218078620

Having previously only excerpts and admiring comments to go on, I finally gave it my full attention at dawn and it's outstandingly good. More immediate and analytical than Tortelier, but with wonderful textural clarity and idiomatic phrasing. It just sounds right. I went straight to amazon and ordered the other Arte Nova CDs 2ndhand. Roger Nichols, one of Gramophone's best French rep reviewers, gave the Graf 1st a glowing review back in the day (G., 5/2003). If anyone chases these up, do seek out the original Arte Nova discs, they're cheaper and probably sound better than the reissues. But it does look like a great bargain for anyone wanting only the orchestral music.

(NB - for anyone with the DG box, Graf's Mystere de l'Instant is in there (CD2) for a taster...)

[ahinton]

Roger Nichols, one of Gramophone's best French rep reviewers

Yes, isn't he just! - and so much more; a walking encyclopædia of French musical history at the very least - an organist and pupil or Rubbra, he was decorated as Chevalier de la Légion d'honneur in 2006 for his 40 years of service to French music - and deservedly so! His recent obituary of Boulez is one of the best that I've read; it's at http://www.theguardian.com/music/201.../pierre-boulez and the photograph of Boulez himself that adorns it looks to be of someone who would not think even to burn down an empty rabbit hutch...

[ahinton]

There's also a rhythmic "tick" that runs through Schoenberg's career that features in the melody of the Variations: ti-Da-di Dah-dah. It's there in Verklaerte Nacht; P&M; the Piano and Violin Concertos; M&A ... virtually everywhere - and always to shape the contour of a falling melodic phrase!

Ah, so you'd noticed to! You've "found him out"! This is just another example of the consistency that underlies his work from VN to - ell, pretty much the end, methinks.