BaL 2.01.16 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 5 in C minor

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  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20570

    #91
    The winning version was one that remained on my wanted list for 40 years, but I felt I could justify yet another version. Fortunately it was in the Vienna Philharmonic DG Symphony Box.

    Comment

    • ferneyhoughgeliebte
      Gone fishin'
      • Sep 2011
      • 30163

      #92
      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
      I just meant that there doesn't seem to be the level of interested generated by the Eroica Symphony review. By this time on the review day of that work, we had had over 150 posts, and they were coming in thick and fast.
      http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ica-quot/page8
      - possibly a feeling of goodwill not wanting to re-open old disputes?

      And, whilst I can't blame everything today on the Lagavulin, I seem to have missed out a sentence I thought I'd included in my last post: I meant to add that I thought the reviewer handled an enormous task fairly - generally (a couple of points aside) he made clear distinctions between objective facts and subjective opinions, and kept this focus throughout. A good start to Record Review
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

      Comment

      • vinteuil
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 12844

        #93
        Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
        I thought the reviewer handled an enormous task fairly - generally (a couple of points aside) he made clear distinctions between objective facts and subjective opinions, and kept this focus throughout. A good start to Record Review
        I largely agree : I thought his distinction between the various 'schools' of playing was clearly presented, but then when he mentioned the HIP performances he favoured I wd have liked to hear his views on the various different performances rather than a general 'approval'.

        Comment

        • Tony Halstead
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 1717

          #94
          the HIP performances he favoured
          Which ones did he favour?
          There aren't that many to choose from!
          In Gunther Schuller's book 'The Compleat Conductor' ALL the HIP versions are slagged off, and in particular that of The Hanover Band whose performance ( not 'conducted' but 'led' from the first violin/ leader chair by Monica Huggett) he gets very close to calling 'fraudulent'... primarily on account of its claim to observe the metronome marks - which it doesn't(!)
          In my performing career as a horn player I have played on several recordings of this symphony:
          LSO / Previn
          ECO / Tilson Thomas
          LCP/ Norrington
          AAM / Hogwood
          and it was this latter ( AAM/ Hogwood) that I enjoyed the most., closely followed by Norrington and then Tilson Thomas.
          After the very slow Previn interpretation I found myself hoping and wondering whether the wonderful Mr AP would hopefully have an opportunity to record it again, hopefully somewhat faster in its 1st movement. I don't know whether that ever happened....
          Last edited by Tony Halstead; 02-01-16, 19:23.

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            #95
            Originally posted by Tony View Post
            Which ones did he favour?
            Krivine and Bruggens in particular - and I think he mentioned Gardiner favourably, too.
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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            • Barbirollians
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 11700

              #96
              I suspect EA that the reason is that unlike Nicholas Kenyon's choice for the Eroica the VPO/ Kleiber is one of those rare classics of the Gramophone that very few question as being one of the very finest recordings of a piece - I suspect most forumites listened this morning and although they may gave quibbled with much of what the reviewer said when it came to the winner the response was " fair enough"

              Comment

              • Beef Oven!
                Ex-member
                • Sep 2013
                • 18147

                #97
                Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                I just meant that there doesn't seem to be the level of interested generated by the Eroica Symphony review. By this time on the review day of that work, we had had over 150 posts, and they were coming in thick and fast.


                http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ica-quot/page8
                For me, I simply did not find it as interesting as the Eroica Bal. I prefer HIP performances anyway, and I got the sense that these weren't favoured. Finally, a traditional, dare I say predictable, winner. The Karajan bashing also gave it a sense of a 'traditional template' assessment.

                Edit: And by the by, AAM Hogwood, a fairly recent Johnny come lately set as far as I'm concerned, is my current fave.

                Comment

                • Tony Halstead
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1717

                  #98
                  Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                  For me, I simply did not find it as interesting as the Eroica Bal. I prefer HIP performances anyway, and I got the sense that these weren't favoured. Finally, a traditional, dare I say predictable, winner. The Karajan bashing also gave it a sense of a 'traditional template' assessment.

                  Edit: And by the by, AAM Hogwood, a fairly recent Johnny come lately set as far as I'm concerned, is my current fave.


                  Comment

                  • BBMmk2
                    Late Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 20908

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                    The winning version was one that remained on my wanted list for 40 years, but I felt I could justify yet another version. Fortunately it was in the Vienna Philharmonic DG Symphony Box.
                    Conductor?
                    Don’t cry for me
                    I go where music was born

                    J S Bach 1685-1750

                    Comment

                    • Eine Alpensinfonie
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20570

                      Originally posted by Brassbandmaestro View Post
                      Conductor?




                      Here we go again.



                      Carlos Kleiber

                      Comment

                      • Beef Oven!
                        Ex-member
                        • Sep 2013
                        • 18147

                        Originally posted by Tony View Post
                        Which ones did he favour?
                        There aren't that many to choose from!
                        In Gunther Schuller's book 'The Compleat Conductor' ALL the HIP versions are slagged off, and in particular that of The Hanover Band whose performance ( not 'conducted' but 'led' from the first violin/ leader chair by Monica Huggett) he gets very close to calling 'fraudulent'... primarily on account of its claim to observe the metronome marks - which it doesn't(!)
                        In my performing career as a horn player I have played on several recordings of this symphony:
                        LSO / Previn
                        ECO / Tilson Thomas
                        LCP/ Norrington
                        AAM / Hogwood
                        and it was this latter ( AAM/ Hogwood) that I enjoyed the most., closely followed by Norrington and then Tilson Thomas.
                        After the very slow Previn interpretation I found myself hoping and wondering whether the wonderful Mr AP would hopefully have an opportunity to record it again, hopefully somewhat faster in its 1st movement. I don't know whether that ever happened....
                        I seemed to have missed this post yesterday - it's very interesting to me. As a listener, moving from traditional well-upholstered accounts to more HIPs, I had relied on the Hanover Goodman/Huggett for many years (great Missa in there, too) and then the Norrington LCP. Both sets I enjoy enormously. I was always aware of AAM/Hogwood, but for some reason did not buy it until last year!

                        It's pleasing, in a totally subjective way, to hear that you as a performer enjoyed playing on the Hogwood and Norrington sets most. Knowing this, will undoubtably reinforce my enjoyment when I listen to these sets next

                        Comment

                        • BBMmk2
                          Late Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 20908

                          Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post



                          Here we go again.



                          Carlos Kleiber
                          Ah, well EA, haven't seen the bold type yet!! :)
                          Don’t cry for me
                          I go where music was born

                          J S Bach 1685-1750

                          Comment

                          • silvestrione
                            Full Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1708

                            Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                            . The Karajan bashing...
                            Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed this BAL and look forward to lsitening again to the winner soon, and to the extraordinary Furtwangler in its entirety. However, the only thing that jarred was the dismissal of Karajan (the extract once again did not seem to bear out the critical comments) and the lumping together of Klemperer with Karajan and somebody else for a broad-brush dismissal at some other point. Klemperer was chosen by Trevor Harvey (not that I was 'there') and was a runner-up when Richard Osborne did it later (I was there for that!).

                            Comment

                            • Beef Oven!
                              Ex-member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 18147

                              Originally posted by silvestrione View Post
                              Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed this BAL and look forward to lsitening again to the winner soon, and to the extraordinary Furtwangler in its entirety. However, the only thing that jarred was the dismissal of Karajan (the extract once again did not seem to bear out the critical comments) and the lumping together of Klemperer with Karajan and somebody else for a broad-brush dismissal at some other point. Klemperer was chosen by Trevor Harvey (not that I was 'there') and was a runner-up when Richard Osborne did it later (I was there for that!).
                              Yes, it is interesting how Karajan is used as a 'bad example' in a number of Bals, but there seems to be agreement on these boards that the chosen excerpt is the opposite! The last Sibelius Bal had me running to my shelves and seeking out and playing the 'offending' Karajan recording (#1, 1980).

                              The lumping together and broad-brush dismissal is part of a house-style IMV, that is not very vigorous and throws up too many sacred cows like Kleiber's LvB 5.

                              On another thread there's been praise for R3s 'new music' approach with La Monte Young, Stockhausen et al, saying it's more like what R3 should be doing. Sadly for me, this LvB 5 Bal militated against that endeavour.

                              Comment

                              • Gordon
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1425

                                Originally posted by Tony View Post
                                ........After the very slow Previn interpretation I found myself hoping and wondering whether the wonderful Mr AP would hopefully have an opportunity to record it again, hopefully somewhat faster in its 1st movement. I don't know whether that ever happened....
                                Yes it did, he recorded the 5th again with the RPO for RCA on 23-24th June 1988 in the Henry Wood Hall. Issued on CD as RD87894 and currently available [but I don't see it in the list] :



                                The previous LSO version was recorded at Kingsway [as reported above in #26 by Tony] on 10-11th January 1973 and seems not to have been issued on CD by EMI but it was issued on CD by Disky in November 1996 as ROY 70114.2 and again in October 2001 on TRA003 but neither of these appear to be available.
                                Last edited by Gordon; 03-01-16, 16:28.

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