BaL 5.12.15 - Schubert: Mass No. 6 in E flat, D950

[antongould]

Oh dear. 3 minutes into the broadcast and I've switched off already. This seems to me to be the worst kind of "twofer".

There will be questions in the House ....

[underthecountertenor]

AMcG interrupts JS, gabbles on and on, before mentioning Missa Solemnis, at which point JS is allowed back in and makes clear that he was about to mention the MS when he was interrupted. Frustrating.

[BBMmk2]

AMcG, not good manners!

[verismissimo]

It would be helpful if Andrew asked Summerly what exactly he means by 'old school' singers (usually from the 1970s and 80s it seems!). I have my own ideas, but we should be told!

[MickyD]

And despite the time given to one period performance, not one mention of the excellent Weil/OAE set mentioned earlier on this thread. I wonder why?

[verismissimo]

And despite the time given to one period performance, not one mention of the excellent Weil/OAE set mentioned earlier on this thread. I wonder why?

NLA I think, Micky. Though I invested in a pre-loved copy this week, yet to be auditioned.

[Barbirollians]

AMcG interrupts JS, gabbles on and on, before mentioning Missa Solemnis, at which point JS is allowed back in and makes clear that he was about to mention the MS when he was interrupted. Frustrating.

AMcG was annoying but as I do not know the piece it did not annoy me too much on this occasion . What a stunning work it is and I was greatly moved by the extracts from both Sawallisch recordings especially Helen Donath's singing on the 1971 .

It seemed that JS was trying to say the winner was the 1971 unless you were bothered by the edits but AMcG gabbled over him and made the 1980 the winner on the grounds he preferred the soloists .

Anyway I have ordered both !

[aeolium]

I thought this was one of the most disappointing BaLs this year, despite having a reviewer I normally admire and the subject being one of my very favourite choral works. The dialogue format really ruined it, with AMcG adding little in the way of insight and JS in conversation not a patch on the quality of his solo performances. One of the real merits of the illustrated essay format is that it allows the reviewer to show how each section of the work develops as s/he is illustrating how different performers interpret it - this doesn't seem possible with the fragmented format of the dialogue, where the emphasis is on reacting to each interpretation.

I thought it really odd too that both JS and AMcG seemed to think the work should be seen in the light of later C19 choral music such as Bruckner, a wholly anachronistic approach imv. Schubert knew nothing of the later C19 choral tradition. Perhaps this was why there were so few extracts from period instrument performances, though if Weil/OAE is unavailable then there were few to choose from.

Of the extracts played I have long loved the EMI Sawallisch/BRSO performance (and the whole Sawallisch survey of Schubert choral music). And I enjoyed the period version from Hickox and Collegium 90 and would have liked to have heard more from the Mackerras and the Bernius versions. There was far too much fussing about edits (I can't hear the damn things) and some recordings seemed to be dismissed for quite trivial reasons.

Please return to the illustrated essay format - I haven't yet heard any reviewer who speaks better than he writes.

[DracoM]

YET AGAIN, a 'live' BAL fails in all depts with both presenters sliding easily into stuttering repetition, and record reviewers pap, full of OTT emotive goshing, and oohing and aahing. When will they learn?

This kind of slot really diminishes the work since it foregrounds two competitive broadcasters as against the performances.

I wanted an analytic guide to a work which both speakers agreed was not widely known. Having a single speaker would have permitted such an approach. All in all, a VERY, very frustrating BAL.

And on into the Neilsen slot....he#s doing it again......fly the expert in and then talk over and through him and try to outdo him. Grrrrrr!!!

[Cockney Sparrow]

When I was looking for a Schubert Mass set a few years ago, I got it down to Sawallisch and Weil. I ended up going for the good value 11 CD Sawallisch EMI Choral box which I am very happy with. The Weil box on Vivarte is still there on Amazon.

I was about to ask a question about the sound quality of the Weil (I think there is an adverse comment in a customer review on Amazon). However, I've just checked the 60 CD Vivarte collection listing (in a document on my PC) and masses 5 and 6 with Weil are listed as included in the set - just in case any other board members have this set !
(CORRECTION - Kamisama has kindly corrected me. These are not in the Vivarte set. Apologies!)

[Kamisama]

I was about to ask a question about the sound quality of the Weil (I think there is an adverse comment in a customer review on Amazon). However, I've just checked the 60 CD Vivarte collection listing (in a document on my PC) and masses 5 and 6 with Weil are listed as included in the set - just in case any other board members have this set !

The Vivarte box has the "German" mass not D950. BTW, a few months ago I purchased a used digipak reissue of the Sawallisch recording on Philips for 19p (+p&p) from Zoverstocks. The price is currently still reasonable:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Choral-Works-Franz/dp/B0000060B7

[ardcarp]

The dialogue format really ruined it, with AMcG adding little in the way of insight and JS in conversation not a patch on the quality of his solo performances

They just keep on doing it don't they? As it's live on air (I think) the best way for the format to be sabotaged is for the 'guest' to say, "Well actually I completely disagree, Andrew", which would mess up all their pre-arranged extracts. How about it next time, Jeremy? Apart from anything else, there is so little time to review myriad recordings, and chat just wastes it.

From what I heard, however, I liked the final verdict. Th Harnoncourt extract, where the choir was singing with many Baroque mannerisms, e.g. Glo-ri-a with almost a rest after the 'Glor' (many collegiate choirs do it in the responses these days...GLO-ry be) seemed all wrong. Singing through the vowels seems necessary in this majestic music. I was very amused by the Baremboim quote, i.e. 'if Schubert had lived longer we wouldn't have needed Bruckner and Mahler'.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I switched on again in the car to see if things had improved. But it was utterly ghastly. Andrew even interrupted with a tweet. Now even the best programme on Radio 3 has caught the Twitter virus.

[Don Petter]

What a dreadful start and I can now see why I dislike this format so much. Listen to the first few minutes and notice how long it takes them to make simple points in the conversational format.

As it went on it all sounded too affable and as if it would reach a natural conclusion somewhen about noon!

Not a good use of valuable CDR time.

[Stanfordian]

I switched on again in the car to see if things had improved. But it was utterly ghastly. Andrew even interrupted with a tweet. Now even the best programme on Radio 3 has caught the Twitter virus.

Pathetic is not the word! It's a crying shame that even this excellent programme is being dumbed-down.