BaL 7.11.15 - Handel: Music for the Royal Fireworks

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 30-10-15, 12:53

I think Pinnock came top last time round, though my memory may be a little rusty.

I have the Argo Marriner and the Mackerras (on LP).

**MickyD** · 30-10-15, 13:16

Very keen to hear this - there have been numerous HIP performances in recent years which I have missed. The sticking point is whether you want the all-wind band version (as preferred by the contemporary monarch) or with strings as well. I've had the Hogwood for years and like it a lot.

**cincinnatus** · 30-10-15, 13:36

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

I think Pinnock came top last time round, though my memory may be a little rusty.

I have the Argo Marriner and the Mackerras (on LP).

Quite correct, EA

It was 6 Nov 1999 and Lucie Skeaping recommended Pinnock and the English Consort. Lamon and Tafelmusik were 2nd and Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists 3rd choice.

**Tony Halstead** · 30-10-15, 14:38

Originally posted by cincinnatus View Post

Quite correct, EA

It was 6 Nov 1999 and Lucie Skeaping recommended Pinnock and the English Consort. Lamon and Tafelmusik were 2nd and Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists 3rd choice.

Trevor Pinnock and The English Concert recorded Handel's Music for the Royal Fireworks twice, both for DGG/Archiv. Their 1st recording was the Strings & Wind version, and the 2nd was the Wind only version. Which one did Lucie Skeaping recommend?
(Sir) John Eliot Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists recorded it twice, firstly for Erato in about 1980 and secondly for Philips in about 1992. Both recordings were of the Strings & Wind version.
Does anybody actually prefer this version, which always sounds rather 'under-nourished' compared to the awesome power of the massed wind band? Or could it be that Handel's original concept was the 'mixed' version and he arranged it for massed wind only to please the King?

**subcontrabass** · 30-10-15, 15:04

Originally posted by Tony View Post

(Sir) John Eliot Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists recorded it twice, firstly for Erato in about 1980 and secondly for Philips in about 1992. Both recordings were of the Strings & Wind version.
Does anybody actually prefer this version, which always sounds rather 'under-nourished' compared to the awesome power of the massed wind band? Or could it be that Handel's original concept was the 'mixed' version and he arranged it for massed wind only to please the King?

The manuscript score seems to indicate that the strings should be additional to the full massed wind band.

**visualnickmos** · 30-10-15, 15:33

I know I shouldn't, but I do like George Szell and the London Symphony Orchestra.

naughty, but nice!

But also Trevor Pinnock.... and really beautifully recorded, too.

**ferneyhoughgeliebte** · 30-10-15, 16:12

Nothing

about the Harty arrangements - no more (or less) than the Jacques Lossier one IMO - just a pity Stokowski's recording, complete with recorded Fireworks, isn't readily available: no other version holds a Roman Candle to it.

EDIT - oh!

I see there is a Stokowski version on Alpie's list. I'm not sure if that is the one I was thinking of, which IIRC was the Harty edition.

**HighlandDougie** · 30-10-15, 16:16

Nick's mention of the Szell has had me give it a spin (it's the fill-up to the Szell Tchaikovsky 4th). Definitely more Harty than Handel - I think that even Beecham might have baulked at the string arrangements. Beautiful playing by the LSO, though I'm not sure that that is going to be enough to convince the learned duo that it deserves a place in the BaL pantheon of greats. Zefiro for me (although Pinnock - and Niquet for something a bit more brazen - run it close).

**visualnickmos** · 30-10-15, 16:41

I suppose at the time of recording, the 'Szell' approach was much more accepted as perfectly plausible and serious than it is now (in this particular piece, I mean, not in general)

Yes - it is certainly well-played, so in its own has its charm. Styles and approaches, methods etc do of course change over the decades - no HIPP for Maestro Szell!

**umslopogaas** · 30-10-15, 16:43

I have, all on LP, Marriner/ASMF, Leppard/ECO, van Beinum/Concertgebouw, Mackerras/Pro Arte Orch., Menuhin/Menuhin Festival Orch. I got to know it from the Marriner disc and that is still my favourite: those Argo LPs with the ASMF still sound marvellous.

**visualnickmos** · 30-10-15, 16:43

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

I think Pinnock came top last time round, though my memory may be a little rusty.

I have the Argo Marriner and the Mackerras (on LP).

Sounds like they both should be 'good' - are they?

**Black Swan** · 30-10-15, 17:00

The Music for the Royal Fireworks has been a favourite of mine for years. I have Pinnock and the English Consort, Savall and le Concert des Nations, Herve Niquet and Le Concert Spirituel and my only wind only recording is Frederick Fennell and the Cleveland Symphonic Winds. So I to will be listening.

**seabright** · 30-10-15, 17:26

Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post

Nothing

about the Harty arrangements - no more (or less) than the Jacques Lossier one IMO - just a pity Stokowski's recording, complete with recorded Fireworks, isn't readily available: no other version holds a Roman Candle to it.

EDIT - oh!

I see there is a Stokowski version on Alpie's list. I'm not sure if that is the one I was thinking of, which IIRC was the Harty edition.

According to the notes in the RCA / BMG CD reissue, Stokowski followed the published score (not the Harty one) which evidently observed Handel's requirements for the outdoor premiere, with an orchestra consisting of 24 oboes, 12 bassoons, 2 contra-bassoons, 9 horns, 9 trumpets, 3 snare drums and 1 timpanist. As Handel also wanted strings, though King George II expressly forbade the use of "fiddles" at the first performance, Stokowski added a big string section too (30 violins, 12 violas, 12 cellos and 8 double-basses). Charles Mackerras is quoted in the notes as saying that "Stokowski is not necessarily being unauthentic in using a large wind band as well as a large string band, because I genuinely believe that with the Fireworks Music 'anything goes'!"

I suppose this recording was RCA's answer to Mackerras's pioneering Pye LP that also featured a huge wind, brass and percussion Pro Arte Orchestra, though without any strings. Stylistically however, Mackerras scored over Stokowski, whose approach was somewhat elephantine, though RCA's added fireworks sounds at the very end were humorously effective.

**MickyD** · 30-10-15, 17:53

I had a listen to some extracts from Robert King's version for Hyperion - the one that amassed the same amount of wind instruments as the old Mackerras version but this time with period ones. It must have been quite a feat to get 12 baroque oboeists together on one day! I like the recorded sound, too, very spacious.

BaL 7.11.15 - Handel: Music for the Royal Fireworks

BaL 7.11.15 - Handel: Music for the Royal Fireworks

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