BaL 26.04.25 - Bartok: Music for strings, percussion and celesta

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  • HighlandDougie
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3183

    #16
    Originally posted by oliver sudden View Post

    Strangely enough I also reach first for Hungarians when I feel like listening to this piece, but two you haven’t mentioned! Doráti and Fricsay. I don’t really have much of an overview of the discography though.

    (Paprika is an interesting phenomenon. I didn’t realise quite _how_ interesting until I had a Serbian partner. At least in Serbia it covers everything from lusciously sweet capsicum to fiery chilli’s-in-all-but-name. Since it was the Austro-Hungarians who ruled the roost there for a while, I don’t imagine it would be a very different story in Hungary, but should I be mistaken I would obviously be only too pleased to be relieved of my ignorance.)
    The Fricsay may be in mono but it's one of my favourite performances (as a pretentious 14 year old my introduction to Bartók's music was this work, courtesy of a mono 10" LP of Ansermet - I was hooked). And, as for paprika:

    This versatile spice has long outgrown its Spanish and Hungarian roots to bring richness, warmth, colour and flavour to a host of dishes

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    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 13358

      #17
      Originally posted by oliver sudden View Post



      (Paprika is an interesting phenomenon. I didn’t realise quite _how_ interesting until I had a Serbian partner. At least in Serbia it covers everything from lusciously sweet capsicum to fiery chilli’s-in-all-but-name. Since it was the Austro-Hungarians who ruled the roost there for a while, I don’t imagine it would be a very different story in Hungary, but should I be mistaken I would obviously be only too pleased to be relieved of my ignorance.)
      ... a bit triggering for me

      My mother, a serious, interested and interesting cook, one time (I must have been about eight or nine) served us a Hungarian recipe she had acquired - but instead of the tsp of paprika had mistakenly incorporated a tbsp of cayenne - she watched in horror as her three sons, trained to be uncomplaining in such matters, stoically made their way thro' the dish, tears streaming down their faces - but saying nothing...


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      • Wolfram
        Full Member
        • Jul 2019
        • 325

        #18
        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

        ... a bit triggering for me

        My mother, a serious, interested and interesting cook, one time (I must have been about eight or nine) served us a Hungarian recipe she had acquired - but instead of the tsp of paprika had mistakenly incorporated a tbsp of cayenne - she watched in horror as her three sons, trained to be uncomplaining in such matters, stoically made their way thro' the dish, tears streaming down their faces - but saying nothing...

        This is stoicism worthy of the Romans.

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        • Wolfram
          Full Member
          • Jul 2019
          • 325

          #19
          I assume that Kocsis plays the piano part on Ivan Fischer’s recording as it appears as part of the set of the piano concertos in which he is the pianist, but doesn’t play the piano on the recording in which he is the conductor. Can anybody verify this?

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          • oliver sudden
            Full Member
            • Feb 2024
            • 798

            #20
            Originally posted by Wolfram View Post
            I assume that Kocsis plays the piano part on Ivan Fischer’s recording as it appears as part of the set of the piano concertos in which he is the pianist, but doesn’t play the piano on the recording in which he is the conductor. Can anybody verify this?
            The Fischer also appears in the Philips Kocsis brick, and on an 83-minute disc so I don’t think it’s because they needed a filler. But the documentation in these boxes is what it is.

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            • Wolfram
              Full Member
              • Jul 2019
              • 325

              #21
              Quite impressed by Sandor Vegh and the Camerata Academica.

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              • richardfinegold
                Full Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 7949

                #22
                Originally posted by Wolfram View Post
                I assume that Kocsis plays the piano part on Ivan Fischer’s recording as it appears as part of the set of the piano concertos in which he is the pianist, but doesn’t play the piano on the recording in which he is the conductor. Can anybody verify this?
                Piano?

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                • Pulcinella
                  Host
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 11591

                  #23
                  Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

                  Piano?
                  Yes: there is a piano part in the score.

                  As its title indicates, the piece is written for string instruments (violins, violas, cellos, double basses, and harp), percussion instruments (xylophone, snare drum, cymbals, tam-tam, bass drum, and timpani) and celesta. The ensemble also includes a piano, which, due to the hammer mechanisms inside, can also be considered a percussion instrument; the celesta player joins the pianist in some four-hands passages. Bartók divides the strings into two ensembles which, he directs, should be placed antiphonally on opposite sides of the stage, and he makes use of antiphonal effects particularly in the second and fourth movements.
                  The score actually says
                  Tamburo piccolo senza corda
                  Tambura piccolo con corda
                  so I guess tambourine is missing in that Wiki listing.
                  It also mentions 2 normale and 2 kleinere (mit höheren Klang) as a note against the Piatti (cymbals).
                  With French translation: it's a multilingual score.

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                  • richardfinegold
                    Full Member
                    • Sep 2012
                    • 7949

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post

                    Yes: there is a piano part in the score.



                    The score actually says
                    Tamburo piccolo senza corda
                    Tambura piccolo con corda
                    so I guess tambourine is missing in that Wiki listing.
                    It also mentions 2 normale and 2 kleinere (mit höheren Klang) as a note against the Piatti (cymbals).
                    With French translation: it's a multilingual score.
                    I’ve only seen it in concert once, almost 50 years ago, Kubelik leading the CSO. I confess that I was unaware of a Piano

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                    • oliver sudden
                      Full Member
                      • Feb 2024
                      • 798

                      #25
                      The score also says that the timp glissandi can and must be played as chromatic scales on the piano if no pedal timps are available!

                      Those were the days.

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                      • Barbirollians
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12090

                        #26
                        Again ? So soon ? Obviously the work experience child is choosing a repeat of every BAL from about 10 years ago with no consideration of all the works not chosen 10 years ago .

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                        • oliver sudden
                          Full Member
                          • Feb 2024
                          • 798

                          #27
                          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

                          ... a bit triggering for me

                          My mother, a serious, interested and interesting cook, one time (I must have been about eight or nine) served us a Hungarian recipe she had acquired - but instead of the tsp of paprika had mistakenly incorporated a tbsp of cayenne - she watched in horror as her three sons, trained to be uncomplaining in such matters, stoically made their way thro' the dish, tears streaming down their faces - but saying nothing...

                          This reminds me of Max Beerbohm’s fine parodic short story, ‘Scruts’.

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                          • vinteuil
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 13358

                            #28
                            Originally posted by oliver sudden View Post

                            This reminds me of Max Beerbohm’s fine parodic short story, ‘Scruts’.
                            Beerbohm's parody of Arn*ld B*nn*tt in 'Scruts' is glorious - I hope you also enjoyed his H*nry J*m*s in 'The Mote in the Middle Distance'





                            Last edited by vinteuil; 07-04-25, 10:01.

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                            • Barbirollians
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 12090

                              #29
                              I have Fricsay and Reiner - can’t imagine needing another.

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