BaL 15.03.25 - Dvořák: Symphony 8

[makropulos]

Fwiw, this is Tully Potter’s take on the broadcast from his Facebook page:
LES PENSÉES DE POTTER – 28


I don’t often catch ‘Building a Library’ on Radio 3 these days, as it has also been shunted into a siding. But I did catch some of the item on Dvořák’s G major Symphony, about which I have just been writing, by coincidence. I caught up with more of it online but was very lukewarm about most of the shortlist – why are we still being told how wonderful the Kertesz records of this composer are, when they were eclipsed even in their own time by Rowicki’s series with the same orchestra (neither conductor managed to galvanise the blasé LSO in the ‘New World’)? A friend is getting me the live Hrusa/VPO version, which sounded good – I fell foul of the Philharmoniker website. The Viennese usually round off Dvořák’s corners too much but Hrusa is such a wonderful musician that I am sure his performance is worth having.
Unless I somehow missed it, no mention was made of a great conductor-and-orchestra combination in this most lovable of all Dvořák symphonies, Václav Neumann and the Czech Philharmonic. I seem to remember that Tony Burton chose one of their versions as the best on a previous occasion. Spurred on by Rob Cowan, I have just bought myself Neumann’s superb CPO concert at the 1988 Lucerne Festival (Audite 97.832) and the Eighth is as good as he promised. I might want the slow passages in the finale, including the opening, a fraction faster, but on a second hearing these may not bother me at all. Playing and conducting are both ‘foist cless’, as Hyman Kaplan would say.
Two more of the ‘K’ conductors were featured, Kubelík and Karajan. I find the entire BPO series by Kubelík very disappointing, including the Eighth, and I cannot see Karajan as a Dvořák conductor, although I must defend him on one point. I think it was he who came in for criticism over excessive portamento in the Trio of the Allegretto grazioso, with Andrew McGregor doing his usual nodding-dog act. Well, all I can say in that regard is that portamento is inherent to the style of Dvořák, Brahms, Elgar, Mahler, even Ravel and Bartók, neither of whom ever heard a string player who did not employ it.
I agreed with the selection of historic conductors who excelled in this symphony, Talich, Stupka and so on, but we were not vouchsafed a hearing of any of them – I have all of them on my shelves, anyway. Meanwhile, it’s back to Neumann…
PS: I am rather fond of the cycle on Exton by Zdeněk Mácal and the CPO, with the exception of the Second, which he thought fit to cut to ribbons. The sound is lovely, too.

I'm not going to reply in detail to TP's comments, but must say two things:
1. 'Why are we still being told how wonderful the Kertesz records are' – in the case of No. 8, because it is – in my view – a magnificent performance. And I was the one doing the reviewing.
2. 'excessive portamento'. The significant point was either not noticed or deliberately ignored: the style of the portamento in that extract struck me as excessive and arguably tasteless – and I specifically said that some portamento in this passage is desirable.

[silvestrione]

I have always thought the BPO/Kubelik in Dvorak 8 one of the great recordings, from first note to last. The orchestra play like gods for him, and the trumpeter! A golden trumpet...I'd love to know who that was (and also the flautist: was that the era of that well-known Englishman whose name escapes me?). The sound has a lovely bloom on it (curiously not so apparent on Sym 6 and 7 in that series, on my equipment, streamed). These days I have a CD, but the old LP was much loved...

[Pulcinella]

I have always thought the BPO/Kubelik in Dvorak 8 one of the great recordings, from first note to last. The orchestra play like gods for him, and the trumpeter! A golden trumpet...I'd love to know who that was (and also the flautist: was that the era of that well-known Englishman whose name escapes me?). The sound has a lovely bloom on it (curiously not so apparent on Sym 6 and 7 in that series, on my equipment, streamed). These days I have a CD, but the old LP was much loved...

Are you thinking of James Galway?

Wiki says:

He auditioned for the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra under Herbert von Karajan and was principal flute in the orchestra from 1969 to 1975.

This is from discogs, so the answer would be no.

Dvořák: Symphony No. 8 in G major, Op. 88

• Berliner Philharmoniker
• Rafael Kubelik
• Recorded: 1966-06-09
• Recording Venue: Jesus-Christus-Kirche, Berlin

[mikealdren]

and he isn't English, he's Irish. He's also renowned (apart from his fabulous playing) for being the only member of the orchestra to call Karajan 'Herbert'!

[pastoralguy]

I’m pretty sure it’s Jimmy Galway playing first flute in the classic Dvorak ‘cello concerto with Rostropovich and Karajan. Absolutely beautiful playing.

[HighlandDougie]

I never did think much of Tully Potter's critical contributions to Gramophone over the years and his pensées kindly supplied by RF have not changed that view. His rather egregious comment about A McG might stem from sour grapes - and I stand to be corrected on this - as I don't remember him as a regular BaL reviewer. The Hrůša was easy to obtain from the VPO website but that was for delivery to France so maybe the UK is now regarded as behind the Brexit curtain.

[vinteuil]

and he isn't English, he's Irish.

... yes, a Belfast boy who sees his national identity as Irish - but who is happy to receive an Order of the British Empire and a knighthood from the United Kingdom



.

[HighlandDougie]

I’m pretty sure it’s Jimmy Galway playing first flute in the classic Dvorak ‘cello concerto with Rostropovich and Karajan. Absolutely beautiful playing.

Alas, sorry to be dreary Mister Pedantic and puncture the dream of the golden flute tootling with Rostropovich et al but it's much more likely when the recordings of the Dvořák/Tchaikovsky were made in September 1968 (21st to 24th) to have been Karlheinz Zöller (he of the early 1960s DGG Mozart flute and harp concerto with the BPO). It was as a result of an injury Zöller sustained in a car accident that Karajan sought in 1969 to hold auditions for a replacement resulting in James Galway being appointed.

[pastoralguy]

Alas, sorry to be dreary Mister Pedantic and puncture the dream of the golden flute tootling with Rostropovich et al but it's much more likely when the recordings of the Dvořák/Tchaikovsky were made in September 1968 (21st to 24th) to have been Karlheinz Zöller (he of the early 1960s DGG Mozart flute and harp concerto with the BPO). It was as a result of an injury Zöller sustained in a car accident that Karajan sought in 1969 to hold auditions for a replacement resulting in James Galway being appointed.

Thank you for that. It’s still beautiful flute playing. Sorry to hear about Herr Zöller.

[makropulos]

I never did think much of Tully Potter's critical contributions to Gramophone over the years and his pensées kindly supplied by RF have not changed that view. His rather egregious comment about A McG might stem from sour grapes - and I stand to be corrected on this - as I don't remember him as a regular BaL reviewer. The Hrůša was easy to obtain from the VPO website but that was for delivery to France so maybe the UK is now regarded as behind the Brexit curtain.

It's quite easy to obtain in the UK from the Vienna Phil website as well – I'm happy to say.

[Petrushka]

It's quite easy to obtain in the UK from the Vienna Phil website as well – I'm happy to say.

Agreed. I've had a few items from the VPO website, including two hefty books, and have had no problem.

[silvestrione]

Tully Potter, hmm, yes: a piece of his in the Gramophone recently, on Kyung-Wha Chung, spends too much time on her attractiveness (good looks I mean), and stoops as low as saying 'the VPO are wasted on Sir Simon Rattle', re their Beethoven disc. An unnecessary casual insult. Poorly edited on this occasion, as I mostly enjoy the magazine these days.

Apologies to James Galway. I remembered the name after I'd posted, and did start to worry I'd got his nationality wrong. Thanks to Pulcinella for the research.

[pastoralguy]

Tully Potter, hmm, yes: a piece of his in the Gramophone recently, on Kyung-Wha Chung, spends too much time on her attractiveness (good looks I mean), and stoops as low as saying 'the VPO are wasted on Sir Simon Rattle', re their Beethoven disc. An unnecessary casual insult. Poorly edited on this occasion, as I mostly enjoy the magazine these days.

Apologies to James Galway. I remembered the name after I'd posted, and did start to worry I'd got his nationality wrong. Thanks to Pulcinella for the research.

Tully Potter used to write reviews regularly for The Strad magazine where he was quite destructive in his opinions of string players both old and new.

[Barbirollians]

I have never got this Rowicki is better than Kertesz idea . Rob Cowan has peddled it in Gramophone for years . When The Rowicki set was released a few years ago quite cheaply I invested in it .

Kertesz for me in every symphony - better played and much more my kind of Dvorak - more affectionate and emotional.

[Barbirollians]

Tully Potter used to write reviews regularly for The Strad magazine where he was quite destructive in his opinions of string players both old and new.

Yes - although there are some of his opinions I have agreed with such as that Menuhin’s later recordings are often unjustly maligned he talks a great deal of nonsense too . The sleeve note he wrote when Eloquence released Anja Thauer’s Dvorak Concerto recording was largely marked by sexist nonsense comparing her to Jacqueline du Pre.