BaL 22.03.25 - Bruckner: Symphony 4

[Barbirollians]

Interesting considering that list that outside Germany only the two concerts in Prague appear to have been in an occupied country - albeit Denmark was de facto occupied although the Danish civilian govt operated under its King until 1943. The Italy and Hungary concerts appear to have taken place when they were Axis powers.

[Goon525]

I didn't really get on with the LSO/Rattle on first hearing (the only one so far) and I need to assess it again. Richard Osborne thought well of it and as I totally trust him when it comes to Bruckner .

On the subject of Richard Osborne, he has contributed a magisterial Gramophone Collection on Beethoven 7 in the current issue of G. In five pages of editorial, he covers vastly more ground than anyone manages in BaL these days, He’s always been a very high level reviewer but I’ll admit I find him a bit less reliable in the last few years than I used to. (I’ve never been as positive about his views on recording quality.) Caveats aside, he’s the tops, and you’ll learn a lot more from his article than BaL these days.

[Parry1912]

Re Richard Finegold's comment, I am aware that the original version of this symphony is different from the usually played 1878-80 version but I have never heard it. I guess that it has been recorded but don't know by whom - can anyone enlighten me?

On his website, in an article on versions, William Carragan says:

“The purpose of this article is not to recommend recordings, but I must break that rule to mention most urgently the CDs of the early versions of the Second, Third, Fourth, and Eighth. At the head of these I must place that of the Fourth by López-Cobos and the Cincinnati Symphony.”

[richardfinegold]

I am mistaken. I looked on a website from the (now defunct?) French Label Tahra that lists all of Furtwangler’s concerts and he didn’t conduct in Paris during the occupation.
I am not sure where the source of the video that is in my head. Dementia? And the confusing AI statement from asafari didn’t help, but we all know about AI.
He did conduct in Prague.

[silvestrione]

On the subject of Richard Osborne, he has contributed a magisterial Gramophone Collection on Beethoven 7 in the current issue of G. In five pages of editorial, he covers vastly more ground than anyone manages in BaL these days, He’s always been a very high level reviewer but I’ll admit I find him a bit less reliable in the last few years than I used to. (I’ve never been as positive about his views on recording quality.) Caveats aside, he’s the tops, and you’ll learn a lot more from his article than BaL these days.

Indeed. He seems to be working through all the Beethoven symphonies, as 3, 9, and 6 (in the 'Gramophone Collection' series) have already appeared. (Furtwangler, Furtwangler, Bohm, respectively, in case you are wondering: though multiple recommendations, really).

[akiralx]

On the subject of RO, I will suggest an enjoyable outlier for B4: the Philadelphia O/Sawallisch on EMI - the Finale of which I recall he described in his Gramophone review as 'a Brucknerian revel, Stokowski-style'.

[Barbirollians]

In his Beethoven 7 the winner is the Abbado Rome recording ( it is very exciting) . Though lots of honourable mentions .

[oliver sudden]

I am mistaken. I looked on a website from the (now defunct?) French Label Tahra that lists all of Furtwangler’s concerts and he didn’t conduct in Paris during the occupation.
I am not sure where the source of the video that is in my head. Dementia? And the confusing AI statement from asafari didn’t help, but we all know about AI.
He did conduct in Prague.

As far as I can tell from the back cover of the video you mentioned, it seems to have footage of Furtwängler conducting during the war, and also footage of concerts by a Berlin orchestra in occupied Paris, which would make it a very logical conclusion to have come to.

He said: “I will never play in a country such as France, which I am so much attached to, considering myself a 'vanquisher'. I will conduct there again only when the country has been liberated". An invitation was forced out of Charles Munch to get him to conduct there, but Munch made sure to write “in agreement with the German occupation authorities”, which was enough to inform Furtwängler of the nature of the situation and he refused.

(This from the Wikipedia article on Furtwängler, which is fairly important reading I think.)

[Darloboy]

Re Richard Finegold's comment, I am aware that the original version of this symphony is different from the usually played 1878-80 version but I have never heard it. I guess that it has been recorded but don't know by whom - can anyone enlighten me?

Every recording of every version of the symphony, including the 1874 version, is listed here: https://www.abruckner.com/discograph...onyno4ineflat/

[Wolfram]

*Spoiler alert*

So, according to the RR web page ‘next on’ Vasily Petrenko wins the BaL on the Shostakovich 10 from the programme to be broadcast on Saturday 5th April. Well, anyway, that’s what the entry for the programme to be broadcast on Sunday 6th says, which I presume represents a return to the practice of playing the BaL winner complete each following Sunday. I don’t think the BBC meant to do that; but they do seem to have given away the winner before the programme is actually broadcast.

Or maybe it’s a ruse; they are trying to throw us off the scent, and Ed Seckerson is really going to recommend Lennie on the day.

[Pulcinella]

*Spoiler alert*

So, according to the RR web page ‘next on’ Vasily Petrenko wins the BaL on the Shostakovich 10 from the programme to be broadcast on Saturday 5th April. Well, anyway, that’s what the entry for the programme to be broadcast on Sunday 6th says, which I presume represents a return to the practice of playing the BaL winner complete each following Sunday. I don’t think the BBC meant to do that; but they do seem to have given away the winner before the programme is actually broadcast.

Or maybe it’s a ruse; they are trying to throw us off the scent, and Ed Seckerson is really going to recommend Lennie on the day.

and

I'll launch threads for the weeks that obviously got updated since I last looked this morning.

[jonfan]

Enjoying listening again to Klemperer and the Philharmonia on top form with stunning sound with each section clearly delineated, The divided violins a strong bonus; Klemperer moves things forward with a bit more urgency than Bohm. My first LP of Bruckner with a romantic castle on the front to portray the Scherzo!

[Barbirollians]

I am fond of OK's 4.6( much maligned by Tom Service in a BAL ) and 7 . Shame his EMI recording mutilated the 8th . Remarkable they allowed him to do it rather than cancelling the recording - just think they could have called in Barbirolli ...

[jonfan]

I am fond of OK's 4.6( much maligned by Tom Service in a BAL ) and 7 . Shame his EMI recording mutilated the 8th . Remarkable they allowed him to do it rather than cancelling the recording - just think they could have called in Barbirolli ...

You wouldn’t be biased in any way would you Mr B?
Barbirolli’s 8th from the RFH can’t be bettered as an overwhelming experience surely? A fitting legacy,
Listening through headphones I was moved by OK’s 4 with the superlative playing and the amazing detail in the recording, but with no lack of bloom and presence. Probably Kingsway Hall?

[Barbirollians]

You wouldn’t be biased in any way would you Mr B?
Barbirolli’s 8th from the RFH can’t be bettered as an overwhelming experience surely? A fitting legacy,
Listening through headphones I was moved by OK’s 4 with the superlative playing and the amazing detail in the recording, but with no lack of bloom and presence. Probably Kingsway Hall?

That's true the BBC Legends account is stupendous - described by RO as the bravest boldest Bruckner 8 on record and whinged about by Hurwitz - could there be a higher recommendation?