BaL 22.03.25 - Bruckner: Symphony 4

[Alison]

Re Richard Finegold's comment, I am aware that the original version of this symphony is different from the usually played 1878-80 version but I have never heard it. I guess that it has been recorded but don't know by whom - can anyone enlighten me?

You could try Jakub Hrusa on Accentus.

[boesendorfer]

Isn't there one by Sir Roger?

[vinteuil]

Needless to say, I've got very many versions on my shelves and lurking in boxes so choosing just one is impossible.

... likewise : the only sane response!

I am aware that the original version of this symphony is different from the usually played 1878-80 version but I have never heard it. I guess that it has been recorded but don't know by whom - can anyone enlighten me?

Markus Poschner in his 'complete' edition offers -
first version [1876]
second version [1878-1880]
third version [1888]

I have a lot of time for Venzago, Harnoncourt, Herreweghe, and of course for Sir Roger Norrington



and I also listen to Wand, Jochum, Celibidache, to say nothing of Tutti Quanti...
.

[richardfinegold]

Type “Did Furtwangler conduct in Paris” into Google and see what pops up. I just did it again, and it mentions the war years.
Also the movie “Art In The Service of Evil: Conductors in the Third Reich” had some footage. It’s been years since I’ve seen it and it’s an hour long, so it might take me a spell to locate the sequence

[mikealdren]

I’m not much on the different editions on the Bruckner Symphonies, but from what I understand the Fourth is the one with the biggest variances, with as much as 30% of the music being excised from the original

Yes the Poschner set has 3 versions plus an alternative finale.

[visualnickmos]

Yes the Poschner set has 3 versions plus an alternative finale.

That doesn't sound like it would fly off the shelves or websites!

[Barbirollians]

Type “Did Furtwangler conduct in Paris” into Google and see what pops up. I just did it again, and it mentions the war years.
Also the movie “Art In The Service of Evil: Conductors in the Third Reich” had some footage. It’s been years since I’ve seen it and it’s an hour long, so it might take me a spell to locate the sequence

I just did that and I could not find any evidence he conducted in Paris in the years the Nazis occupied France. All the entries said the opposite.

[Barbirollians]

Schaller another recently praised version as is Heras Casado’s HIPP version.

[MickyD]

Schaller another recently praised version as is Heras Casado’s HIPP version.

Strange that Harmonia Mundi did that when they already have the Herreweghe Bruckner 4 in their catalogue. Is it going to be a cycle, I wonder, and how does the Casado compare with Herreweghe ?

[richardfinegold]

Type “Did Furtwangler conduct in Paris” into Google and see what pops up. I just did it again, and it mentions the war years.
Also the movie “Art In The Service of Evil: Conductors in the Third Reich” had some footage. It’s been years since I’ve seen it and it’s an hour long, so it might take me a spell to locate the sequence

The following was cut and pasted from my AI overview. It appears under Safari, but not when I use Google Chrome


Yes, Wilhelm Furtwängler conducted in Paris in 1937, 1943, and 1944. He also performed at the 1937 World Exhibition in Paris.
Explanation

There are other AI mentions that he did not conduct anywhere but Berlin during World War II. However we know that isn't correct because he conducted in Sweden.

I will have to dig out that video; I haven't watched it in probably a decade and it is in a pile somewhere in a closet

[oliver sudden]

The following was cut and pasted from my AI overview. It appears under Safari, but not when I use Google Chrome


Yes, Wilhelm Furtwängler conducted in Paris in 1937, 1943, and 1944. He also performed at the 1937 World Exhibition in Paris.
Explanation

There are other AI mentions that he did not conduct anywhere but Berlin during World War II. However we know that isn't correct because he conducted in Sweden.

I will have to dig out that video; I haven't watched it in probably a decade and it is in a pile somewhere in a closet

Do you have any source apart from AI?

The back cover of the video you mention is visible on Amazon, and the only conductor it mentions conducting in occupied Paris is Karajan.

[Barbirollians]

I don't trust AI at all .

[Darloboy]

Previous BaL recommendations:

Richard Osborne (Oct 78): Philharmonia/Klemperer
Jonathan Swain (May 91): VPO/Böhm + VPO/Abbado & Philharmonia/Klemperer as also recommended
Stephen Johnson (Nov 2012): BPO/Wand (Haas) - I've made a note that Jochum was mentioned for the Nowak; Simone Young for the 1874 version; and Furtwängler for the 1889 version

[Barbirollians]

Previous BaL recommendations:

Richard Osborne (Oct 78): Philharmonia/Klemperer
Jonathan Swain (May 91): VPO/Böhm + VPO/Abbado & Philharmonia/Klemperer as also recommended
Stephen Johnson (Nov 2012): BPO/Wand (Haas) - I've made a note that Jochum was mentioned for the Nowak; Simone Young for the 1874 version; and Furtwängler for the 1889 version

In his quite recent Gramophone Collection on the piece - Richard Osborne recommended Columbia SO/Walter as his first choice if I recall rightly.

Heavens above it was 2007.

[HighlandDougie]

I just did that and I could not find any evidence he conducted in Paris in the years the Nazis occupied France. All the entries said the opposite.

Backed up by the - seemingly comprehensive and probably definitive - list here:

http://patangel.free.fr/furt/conce_en.htm#a1940

I went through the concerts from 1939 to 1946 and could find no mention of WF conducting in France, whether in concert or in the opera house.

* The reference to concerts in 1937, 1943 and 1944 is in a Medici TV article but the reference is to Bayreuth, not Paris, as in: "In the same year, he again conducted in Bayreuth for the first time since 1931.

He conducted there again in 1937, 1943 and 1944. In between, he conducted in Paris during the world exhibition in 1937". (https://www.medici.tv/en/artists/wilhelm-furtwangler)