BaL 15.02.25 - Puccini: La bohème

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  • Wolfram
    Full Member
    • Jul 2019
    • 300

    #46
    Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post

    Vaduva not Gheorghiu is the soprano in the Pappano - AG made a version with Chailly shortly after .

    If it was your only version Pappano would be fine but it’s no match for Beecham or HVK .

    Willson has chosen some shockers in the past - her dreadful Das Lied and magic Flute BALs in particular .At least it seems she chose a reasonably good version this time.
    I’d forgotten that she was responsible for those two recommendations, which you quite rightly describe as shockers.

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    • Ein Heldenleben
      Full Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 7241

      #47
      Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post

      Serafin’s La Boheme was Decca surely not EMI ?
      Yes you’re right . And I’d confused the Pappano / Georghiu Butterfly with his La Boheme. Alagna as Rodolfo was another wrong pointer as I think the celebrated couple were then in their quasi Mimi / Rodolfo tempestuous relationship phase.
      Been a bit of a week for musical confusion - the highlight of which was me at a Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra interval reception congratulating a bemused audience member on her magnificent performance of the Elgar Cello Concerto. Well she looked a bit like the cellist ,,,,

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      • Barbirollians
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11957

        #48
        Same old story - Andrew McGregor whinging about the sound in Beecham. Sounds fine to me and always has done.

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        • Roger Webb
          Full Member
          • Feb 2024
          • 1058

          #49
          Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
          Same old story - Andrew McGregor whinging about the sound in Beecham. Sounds fine to me and always has done.
          And me! But.....on SLS 896 it has artificial reverb added...in stereo!

          There was a persistent rumour that this Boheme was recorded in stereo. It wasn't, but was recorded on two tracks - vocals on one and orchestra on the other, and I think various attempts have been made with such recordings to pretend that they are in stereo by panning the voices one side then the other, sometimes to comic effect! Eg. tenor on the left, soprano on the right when singing solo, but when they come together for that love duet....well, they can't be separated!!

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          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11957

            #50
            The truth to be fair is that Pappano is the star of this La Boheme rather than the singers . Votto got chucked out without explanation despite Callas and Moffo being praised.

            I think that was illustrated by the final extracts and the Act 3 piece played - where to my ears the fabulous singing on the Beecham was much more moving than the good singing on the Pappano.
            Last edited by Barbirollians; 16-02-25, 11:53.

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            • Ein Heldenleben
              Full Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 7241

              #51
              Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
              The truth to be fair is that Pappano is the star of this La Boheme rather than the singers . Votto got chucked out without explanation despite Callas and Moffo being praised.

              I think that was illustrated by the final extracts and the Act 3 piece played - where to my ears the fabulous singing on the Beecham was much more moving than the good singing on the Pappano.
              Bjorling v Alagna . Just no contest..

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              • Barbirollians
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 11957

                #52
                I went to look up Gramophone's review of the Pappano and found the Gramophone Collection of Nov 1996 by Michael Oliver just after the Pappano came out - Beecham won by a whisker from Votto with Toscanini, Berrottini, HVK and Solti on the shortlist

                He said this about the Pappano

                " Pappano has more character and more bright ideas about the wrok than his mostly young cast ...too often he upstages them ,the amplitude of the orchestra forcing them to use more voice than they should . , it is Pappano's Boheme not theirs "

                Richard Fairman was also critical in his review a month earlier - feeling it should have been better than it was and that Alagna and Vaduva were not in best voice .

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                • Barbirollians
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 11957

                  #53
                  I suppose that's always been the best thing about BAL listening to different versions one can find that one has a very different view from the reviewer - with Willson I tend to find that in every one she does.

                  Comment

                  • Roger Webb
                    Full Member
                    • Feb 2024
                    • 1058

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post

                    And me! But.....on SLS 896 it has artificial reverb added...in stereo!

                    There was a persistent rumour that this Boheme was recorded in stereo. It wasn't, but was recorded on two tracks - vocals on one and orchestra on the other, and I think various attempts have been made with such recordings to pretend that they are in stereo by panning the voices one side then the other, sometimes to comic effect! Eg. tenor on the left, soprano on the right when singing solo, but when they come together for that love duet....well, they can't be separated!!
                    After a bit more research I find that a three track recorder was used with voices on one, orchestra on another and chorus on the other.

                    SLS 896, which is the re-issue I have, was re-mixed from the three track tapes by A C Griffiths, who also transferred many 78 recordings for LP, incl. Elgar Edition RLS 708 and 713, and Beecham's Delius for World. Records in two volumes.

                    BTW. Bjorling and De los Angeles were contracted to remake Boheme in stereo in 1961 but unfortunately Bjorling died the year before and by the time they got round to a replacement De los Angeles (who had actually begun to record her part) was pregnant, so a young Mirella Freni was recruited along with Nicholai Gedda, and Thomas Schippers conducted Rome Opera.

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                    • Barbirollians
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 11957

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Roger Webb View Post

                      After a bit more research I find that a three track recorder was used with voices on one, orchestra on another and chorus on the other.

                      SLS 896, which is the re-issue I have, was re-mixed from the three track tapes by A C Griffiths, who also transferred many 78 recordings for LP, incl. Elgar Edition RLS 708 and 713, and Beecham's Delius for World. Records in two volumes.

                      BTW. Bjorling and De los Angeles were contracted to remake Boheme in stereo in 1961 but unfortunately Bjorling died the year before and by the time they got round to a replacement De los Angeles (who had actually begun to record her part) was pregnant, so a young Mirella Freni was recruited along with Nicholai Gedda, and Thomas Schippers conducted Rome Opera.
                      I have that recording . It’s jolly good as is the live Schippers with Bergonzi.

                      I have always wished Barbirolli had recorded it after his marvellous Rome Butterfly.

                      Comment

                      • Barbirollians
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 11957

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                        I went to look up Gramophone's review of the Pappano and found the Gramophone Collection of Nov 1996 by Michael Oliver just after the Pappano came out - Beecham won by a whisker from Votto with Toscanini, Berrottini, HVK and Solti on the shortlist

                        He said this about the Pappano

                        " Pappano has more character and more bright ideas about the wrok than his mostly young cast ...too often he upstages them ,the amplitude of the orchestra forcing them to use more voice than they should . , it is Pappano's Boheme not theirs "

                        Richard Fairman was also critical in his review a month earlier - feeling it should have been better than it was and that Alagna and Vaduva were not in best voice .
                        Listened to it again this afternoon . It’s enjoyable but it is the orchestral playing that is wonderfully characterful and the subtlety of the conducting that tends to take the ear . I think both reviewers were a bit harsh on it but the basic criticism holds true.
                        Last edited by Barbirollians; 17-02-25, 22:11.

                        Comment

                        • Barbirollians
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 11957

                          #57
                          I only had Callas/Votto on tape so bought a copy of Warner’s 2014 remastering . The improvement in sound quality is amazing and it brings the subtlety of her Mimi into sharp focus . Moffo is terrific , Di Stefano sounds like young poet and the rest of the cast especially Panerai are good too . It could not sound more different yo Beecham but it sounds like their lives were tough which in Beecham’s gorgeous sound world one might forget.

                          Callas is magnificent in Act 4.

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