BaL 19.09.15 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 4 in B flat

[Barbirollians]

1960s Karajan was also my first favourite and I still rate it very highly .

Others - the first Bruggen ( outstanding )
Walter
C Kleiber ( the Bavarian RSO)
The late RCA Gunter Wand .

Not so keen recently on the Krivine as others - one of the better performances in his set I should say but nowhere near as much character as the Bruggen .

[rauschwerk]

I incline towards conductors who take Beethoven's metronome marks if not literally, then seriously. On those grounds I find Karajan's 1962 Adagio too leisurely at around 64 quavers per minute (Beethoven marks 84). I prefer BBCSO/Toscanini and RLPO/Mackerras (virtually identical timings) here.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not so keen recently on the Krivine as others - one of the better performances in his set I should say but nowhere near as much character as the Bruggen .

What do you mean when you use this word in this context, Barbi?

(I originally wrote "What do you mean by using this word ... " - then realized it sounded as if I was saying "How very dare you!", which I wasn't - I'm just interested in why you chose to criticize Krivine for - of all things!!! - a want of "character".)

[Barbirollians]

I suppose it sounds far less interesting to my ears than the Bruggen and rather overdriven in places . A bit charmless .

[Bryn]

I think that, for me, what characterises the Krivine performances of the 4th (both those edited together for the CD and that found on YouTube), is wry wit and exuberance. Charm, as such, is not something I particularly associate with the 4th.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think that, for me, what characterises the Krivine performances of the 4th (both those edited together for the CD and that found on YouTube), is wry wit and exuberance. Charm, as such, is not something I particularly associate with the 4th.

Ooh, I dunno - that cheeky (flirtatious eyebrow waggling emoticon) little inflection from the woodwinds in the Second Group of the First Movement; the Trio of the Third: charms the pants off me!



I suppose Barbi's reaction only goes to confirm what ahinton has been saying all along - we all hear the same thing very differently: whilst adoring the (earlier) Bruggen recordings, I think Krivine tops even this level of Musicianship - and words like "character" would be precisely those I would use to support my preference.

[Bryn]

By the way, though the Krivine set is currently considerable overpriced (both for physical discs and download) via amazon.co.luk, the lossless download from QOBUZ is much more reasonably priced at £15.99. The 9th is also to be found in their £5.49 download of:



Which comprises:



Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125 'Choral' - Sinead Mulhern (soprano), Carolin Masur (mezzo-soprano), Dominik Wortig (tenor) & Konstantin Wolff (bass baritone), La Chambre Philharmonique (on period instruments) & Choeur de Chambre les Eléments, Emmanuel Krivine

Piano Concerto No. 4 in G major, Op. 58 - François-Frédéric Guy (piano), Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio-France, Philippe Jordan

Quintet in E flat major for piano and winds, Op.16 - François-Frédéric Guy (piano), et al

Piano Sonata No. 4 in E flat major, Op. 7 - Grigory Sokolov (piano)

Piano Sonata No. 28 in A major, Op. 101 - Grigory Sokolov (piano)

Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61 + Romance No. 1 for Violin and Orchestra in G major, Op. 40 + Romance No. 2 for Violin and Orchestra in F major, Op. 50 + Violin Concerto Movement in C major, WoO 5 - Patricia Kopatchinskaja (violin), Orchestre des Champs-Élysées, Philippe Herreweghe

[Barbirollians]

I think that, for me, what characterises the Krivine performances of the 4th (both those edited together for the CD and that found on YouTube), is wry wit and exuberance. Charm, as such, is not something I particularly associate with the 4th.

Try Bruno Walter

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'd pay double the price just to avoid the ghastly spelling.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd pay double the price just to avoid the ghastly spelling.

Oh, all right then:

Beethouven!

[Roehre]

Oh, all right then:

Beethouven!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The cover for the full set of symphonies is even worse:-

[Pulcinella]

I'd pay double the price just to avoid the ghastly spelling.

As with many US usages, they reflect an older style used here too (such as gotten).
Here is favor's etymology from Wiki.

From Middle English favour, favor, faver, from Anglo-Norman favour, from mainland Old French favor, from Latin favor (“good will; kindness; partiality”), from favere (“to be kind to”), from Proto-Indo-European *gʰowe- (“to honour, revere, worship”). Cognate with Old Norse gá (“to heed, mark, pay attention”), Icelandic gá (“to look, see, check”). Respelled in American English to more closely match its Latin etymon. Compare also Danish favør (“favor”), Swedish favör (“favor”), from the same Romance source.

[Barbirollians]

Just dug out the Bruno Walter recording - forgotten quite how good it was .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The cover for the full set of symphonies is even worse:-

I suppose you could play a word search game if the performance were dull.