BaL 19.09.15 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 4 in B flat

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I do remember playing on an ECO recording ( CBS /Sony?) at Abbey Road, conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, maybe in the early 1980s. At the time, it seemed 'lithe and coherent', and anticipated many of the HIPP practices that were to follow.
Is it no longer available?

I've checked this out and haven't been able to find it. But I'm sure someone will help.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Got by with only one LP version, VPO/ Bohm, so for many years so I was at one with Roehre

Have more recently gone OTT with CD versions, mostly 'liberated' from charity shops purely as a way to help the 3rd world: E Kleiber (nla), Klemperer, Szell, Walter, Wand. Like 'em all and am happy to agree with rfg's suggestion up the thread that you don't often come across bad recordings of this work!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I've checked this out and haven't been able to find it. But I'm sure someone will help.

The 1984 PG lists it as LP CBS 37209, c/w Ah! Perfido. It's not in the 2 subsequent volumes that have started to list those new CD thingies

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The 1984 PG lists it as LP CBS 37209, c/w Ah! Perfido. It's not in the 2 subsequent volumes that have started to list those new CD thingies

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Beethoven-Symphony-Perfido-Masterworks/dp/B009Z1QVDU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1442007819&sr=8-3&keywords=Beethoven+Symphony+no.+4+Michael+tilson+thomas

[richardfinegold]

I do remember playing on an ECO recording ( CBS /Sony?) at Abbey Road, conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas, maybe in the early 1980s. At the time, it seemed 'lithe and coherent', and anticipated many of the HIPP practices that were to follow.
Is it no longer available?
We also recorded all the other Beethoven symphonies apart from - inexplicably - the 3rd, which was done by the USA 'Orchestra of St Luke's' conducted by MTT. I must confess, I've always been a bit 'touchy' about this as I was very keen to play those superb, idiomatic horn parts, even on the 'wrong instrument'..( modern valve horn ).

I have that Eroica on lp. I didn't realize that it was part of a cycle. I don't think the ECO recordings saw much exposure in the States, but the Eroica pops up every time I browse at a second hand shop

[Hornspieler]

My one is all on it's self by it's own. (Karajan DG 60s)
Wonder if anyone on here hasn't got any LvB 4s ?

Agreed.

That wonderful pizzicato playing by the cellos and basses in the wind up of the 1st movement, building and building towards those final three chords..
The electrifying panache of the 3 horns in the trio of the scherzo ... and the sheer majesty of the finale, which almost makes one stand to attention and salute.

HS

[Tony Halstead]

Agreed.

That wonderful pizzicato playing by the cellos and basses in the wind up of the 1st movement, building and building towards those final three chords..
The electrifying panache of the 3 horns in the trio of the scherzo ... and the sheer majesty of the finale, which almost makes one stand to attention and salute.

HS

Er....my Baerenreiter score of No.4 has only 2 horns..and frankly the horn writing in the Scherzo is rather dull! Are we discussing the same symphony?

[Bryn]

"Fond as I am of Bruggen, Harnoncourt, JEG, Mackerras, Zinman, Paavo Jarvi, Vanska, I'm inclined to place this new cycle fairly near the top of the pile, principally because it has such strong character. If you know someone yet to discover this greatest of all symphonic cycles, you could hardly do better than give them this as a gift. It could set them up for life."

ROB COWAN, REVIEWING EMMANUEL KRIVINE'S COMPLETE BEETHOVEN CYCLE, GRAMOPHONE 7/2011.

O.k., the audio is only in 96kbps AAC-LC, but there is an alternative, later, performance directed by Krivine on YouTube:

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Er....my Baerenreiter score of No.4 has only 2 horns..and frankly the horn writing in the Scherzo is rather dull! Are we discussing the same symphony?

I think recent posts mentioning the Eroica might have blurred the Thread focus - Hs' description matches that work (and Karajan's '60s recording of it) perfectly.

[Bryn]

I think recent posts mentioning the Eroica might have blurred the Thread focus - Hs' description matches that work (and Karajan's '60s recording of it) perfectly.

That must be the case. After all, the 4th has no movement labelled "scherzo" by the composer, whereas the 3rd does.

[Nick Armstrong]

I see that he's nestling in Alpie's astonishing list ( ), but no-one's specifically mentioned Carlos Kleiber.

Doesn't get any better than that Concertgebouw performance, just different.

In the 1st movement transition from the intro, whoever's playing, it's CK that I see in my mind's eye - see from 3 mns 30 secs onwards in this:

More often than not, it's that reading I wish I was hearing, too! (It's the DVD/Concertgebouw performance that figures in Alpie's Meister-List

I defy anyone to watch at least the whole first movement without pleasure!

[richardfinegold]

I see that he's nestling in Alpie's astonishing list ( ), but no-one's specifically mentioned Carlos Kleiber.

Doesn't get any better than that Concertgebouw performance, just different.

In the 1st movement transition from the intro, whoever's playing, it's CK that I see in my mind's eye - see from 3 mns 30 secs onwards in this:

More often than not, it's that reading I wish I was hearing, too! (It's the DVD/Concertgebouw performance that figures in Alpie's Meister-List

I defy anyone to watch at least the whole first movement without pleasure!

Going OT here
I was the other day watching a DVD of Kleiber conducting Brahms 4.
For someone who reputedly hated to give Concerts, he seems to be enjoying himself quite a bit.

[verismissimo]

...
For me - top choice Krivine (joy, impudence and life-energy in abundance).
"Historic"/"old-style" = Klemperer/PO (one of his very best recordings - and, in the Finale, the first recording of a Beethoven symphony that had me laughing out loud at Beethoven's humour - back in 1977.)
...

Thought I'd re-visit Toscanini and the BBCSO in 1939. Norra lorra laughs there, I fear. Just as in his later recordings - hard-driven and beetle-browed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

O.k., the audio is only in 96kbps AAC-LC, but there is an alternative, later, performance directed by Krivine on YouTube:

Many thanks for this, Bryn - I hadn't seen this particular film before: isn't it marvellous!! The sheer joy of the collective Music-making (and how exactly right is the name of this orchestra - chamber Music attitudes within an orchestral set-up: no sense of an "interpretation" being imposed from a conductor), the imagination of the thirty-five-year-young composer at the forefront - the power, pathos and fun revealed superbly; and those instrumental colours (woody, clear-water flutes, rasping brass, incisive timps - an orchestral balance that lets you hear the different timbres that go into the mix - like an excellent single malt!)

I hadn't noticed before Tony's comment how Beethoven deploys the Horns here less than in the Third and Seventh Symphonies (it's the solo woodwinds - especially the Bassoon - who get to show off here) but this performance shows that what the Horns get to play is far from "rather dull"!

Fantastic stuff - many thanks again, Bryn

[Bryn]

Re. Krivine's Beethoven on YouTube, all 9 symphonies are there in unedited performances (the CDs are compiled from up to three performances and venues for each symphony). He/they take/s different approaches to repeats in the YouTube performances. All the YouTube symphonies are easily downloadable with the freeware Ummy Video Downloader, and the 96kbps AAC-LC audio content can be extracted with the freeware Yamb. It's not really worth using Ummy's mp3 conversion option. There is bound to be a loss of the already limited audio quality in the conversion, even though the output is a 256kbps mp3. Better to stick with the 96kbps AAC-LC it is derived from.