BaL 19.09.15 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 4 in B flat

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    Here's Rob Cowan's original 1998 review of 3 & 4, the very CD I bought soon after -



    And a review of the Cycle from Musicweb's Peter J. Lawson... scroll down to the second-last paragraph for his comments on 3 and 4. (I agree with him about 1 & 2 as well!)



    So it's not just me on the positive side. I listened again to the whole performance tonight and could find little to fault, as per my original comments. The wind solos from clarinet & flute in the adagio, winds' chorusing in the trio (yet marvellously balanced & resolved as individuals!), and bassoon throughout, seemed the more beautiful for their very restraint. Even trying very hard to detect it I couldn't hear anything awkward in the transitional "gear changes" from intro into first movement allegro, either... and that purity-within-articulacy sounds better the more I hear it.
    I guess it's another case of Different Strokes. http://www.metrolyrics.com/everyday-...ily-stone.html

    With the recording itself - from a hifi playback point of view, I did find that, despite lively dynamics, and the immediacy and presence of the orchestral image, the sheer neutrality and smoothness of response meant that a slightly above average volume setting worked best to reveal those lower-level fine details of soloistic and orchestral playing, as well as the acoustic presence (the hall "signature" in the resonances), that I was so enamoured of. It's possible that a less spacious or highly resolved system (or too low a volume setting or lossy codec**) could render this recording dull, sleek and impersonal. Or to put it another way, it's easier for a given system to miss what IS there than to impose or magic up things which aren't. (And if you offer any critique of it, I don't consider listening at 256 kbps (aac or mp3) to be fair to the performers or the engineers. Sorry.).

    How I miss Sounds in Retrospect!

    (**It's always a problem if you read reviews of CDs or lossless downloads, but then listen to them at 320 kbps mp3 or lower, on a streaming service which will add its own sonic characteristics & limitations. You simply aren't comparing like-with-like. As we've heard via Radio 3, 320 kbps aac can sound very good (if never the same as the CD itself), but you do have to optimise computer playback for critical listening, especially to resolve low-level detail or allow unfettered dynamics).
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 22-09-15, 03:09.

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    • Roehre

      Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
      Here's Rob Cowan's original 1998 review of 3 & 4, the very CD I bought soon after -



      And a review of the Cycle from Musicweb's Peter J. Lawson... scroll down to the second-last paragraph for his comments on 3 and 4. (I agree with him about 1 & 2 as well!)



      So it's not just me on the positive side. ...
      No, you aren't.

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      • verismissimo
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 2957

        Originally posted by Roehre View Post
        No, you aren't.
        Seconded enthusiastically!

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        • Nick Armstrong
          Host
          • Nov 2010
          • 26575

          And there's Rob Cowan too on your side!
          "...the isle is full of noises,
          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

          Comment

          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11763

            Though judging by what Richard Osborne said when reviewing Mackerras's CfP set in Gramophone - he isn't . He is also pretty scathing about Zinman's Ninth and his set of overtures too .
            Last edited by Barbirollians; 22-09-15, 12:12.

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            • Darkbloom
              Full Member
              • Feb 2015
              • 706

              Originally posted by Caliban View Post
              Well I've listened this evening to the Chailly and the Zinman renditions of LvB4. I would like to retract the word 'ludicrous' about the Chailly. I'm with you - it's pretty great, and the tempo that struck me as 'slightly ludicrous' for the Adagio second movement (based on the extract played, in juxtaposition with the other extracts in BAL) does seem fine.

              And particularly when compared with the Zinman which - sorry, Jayne - I actively dislike. The performance sounds almost flippant, slick (yes, Barb - soulless is perhaps the word) and somehow beside the point. Sweet recording, but then so has the Chailly.

              Treacherous, those little soundbites on BAL...




              I'm glad you liked it this time round!

              I have changed my opinions about performances so often over the years (good or bad) to understand that if we give a performance another chance it can sound very different. That's one of the reasons I find the different views on here so rewarding, because I frequently end up learning something new. I was amazed the first time I heard these recordings. I had previously seen Chailly as just a reliable performer, but these seem inspired in a way that few sets of the Nine manage to achieve. They are fast, but they seem natural at the same time, and he gets something out of that orchestra that I can't quite put into words, but you have your attention captured from the very first bars. It's as though Chailly convinced them of his vision and they are all playing for their lives: some of the playing in the finales is astonishingly vigorous and committed. I have just started listening to their Brahms and it sounds like he has done something similar there, although it is a little early to be certain about it.

              I have rarely found myself so absorbed by a set of recordings, so I'm glad you gave the Fourth another go, and I recommend the others.

              Comment

              • Barbirollians
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 11763

                I am impressed by the Szell 4th - the absurdly cheap £7.99 set of Beethoven symphonies having arrived today - light on its feet ,superbly played yet not cold at all plenty of humour and charm .

                Comment

                • richardfinegold
                  Full Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 7749

                  Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                  I am impressed by the Szell 4th - the absurdly cheap £7.99 set of Beethoven symphonies having arrived today - light on its feet ,superbly played yet not cold at all plenty of humour and charm .
                  You're right it is absurdly cheap and impressive. They also sound better than the original lps, as Szell was one of those interventionalist Conductors that fiddled with recorded balances and distorted them. Most of Szell's work on CD betas his lps just because the original balances of the masters are restored.
                  I read today that the Zinman set of LvB Symphonies sold over 1 million units. That is by no means an indication of quality but that has to be 20 times more than the average set sells, and was perhaps (?) a factor in being the 'winner'.

                  Comment

                  • Nick Armstrong
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 26575

                    Couldn’t face another chat BAL this morning (much though I like Jeremy Summerly) so postponed Pergolesi until my stomach is stronger....

                    ... instead, I investigated the archive on “Sounds” and had a great time listening to this Rob Cowan survey, blissfully solo....

                    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p032w3r7
                    "...the isle is full of noises,
                    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                    Comment

                    • jayne lee wilson
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 10711

                      Two more personal marvels in the catalogue now: OWA/Haselböck and Concert des Nations/Savall........oh and not to mention DCO/Fischer....
                      So its pretty crowded at the top, whatever your tastes.....

                      Many others this year I haven't heard .... we need a BaL on "Beethoven 2020 Releases", for sure....where's Rob Cowan when we need him?
                      Come on Gramophone: "Collection: Beethoven 2020"

                      Anyway its time to try to throw off this dreadful greyskyrelentlessraingloom and find some enthusiasm for that Emerson Schumann...even my sacred walk looks doubtful today despite the wellies.......the Cats don't know what to do with themselves either....

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