BaL 11.01.25 - Holst: The Planets

[oliver sudden]

There is also the Barbirolli Society release where he similarly leaves out Saturn and Neptune . I wonder why ?

Early on in the life of The Planets there were quite a few partial performances and recordings, and Neptune is an obvious one to leave out for logistical reasons… and I suppose once you’ve left that one out you have to leave one more out and Saturn is the other one that’s debatably not such a crowd-pleaser on its own.

It’s a bit of a mystery to me—hard to imagine he wouldn’t have wanted to do the whole thing, but also hard to imagine he wouldn’t have had the chance. Same goes with the VW symphonies for that matter.

[smittims]

There's a letter where VW complains that he never heard of a performance with two harps of a score of his where he had said 'the second harp is not essential'. !

I remember a performance of the 'short planets' as we used to call it . It was not uncommon to miss out movements in works, Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole being an example.

[oliver sudden]

In the spirit of fairness: I very much did not expect this to consist basically of DH talking about how great Boult was.

https://youtu.be/6Qcm3inHSII?feature=shared

[oliver sudden]

I have been meaning for some time to make the acquaintance of the Hallé/Loughran version, but hadn’t got around to making the necessary manoeuvres on eBay or discogs since it’s a bit of a faff for a recording I hadn’t been able to audition which has had mixed reviews over the years. But four movements have appeared on YouTube and I can heartily recommend hopping over there for a listen. It’s not going to top my own list but there is more than enough in there to justify the aforesaid manoeuvres, which I have now carried out. There are some frailties in the playing but there is also much that is splendid, the conceptions of the movements are individual, and they go deeper into the textures than the vast majority of the field.

[smittims]

I think what you say there,oliver, could be said of many Halle/Loughran performances. I well remember going to the Festival Hall to hear them give a passionately-committed Bruckner 9, less polished but much more thrilling than a BBC performance I'd heard not long before in the same room.

[Barbirollians]

Early on in the life of The Planets there were quite a few partial performances and recordings, and Neptune is an obvious one to leave out for logistical reasons… and I suppose once you’ve left that one out you have to leave one more out and Saturn is the other one that’s debatably not such a crowd-pleaser on its own.

It’s a bit of a mystery to me—hard to imagine he wouldn’t have wanted to do the whole thing, but also hard to imagine he wouldn’t have had the chance. Same goes with the VW symphonies for that matter.

Yes but it’s strange and perhaps due to Boult’s late resurgence at HMV/EMI that Barbirolli recorded plenty of Elgar but only VW 2 ,5 and 7 with them in stereo . As live recordings have shown he was superb in both VW 4 and 6 but as I understand and his Eighth as dedicatee remains hors concours. There are it seems no live recordings of 1,3 and 9.

[Barbirollians]

In fact isn’t the Sinfonia Antarctica late mono ?

[smittims]

Barbirolli's Antartica was recorded on 15-16 June 1953 in the FreeTrade Hall, the premiere having been on 14 January. It was the first recording of the work. I don't have a date for Boult's first recording, made in Kingsway Hall with the LPO, but it was certainly later in the year.

There's also a Barbirolli VW8 from a 1968 Prom,partly (!) in stereo as something went wrong with the BBC's microphones , as I recall , hearing it live. I's been on a BBC Legends CD.

[seabright]

Where a conductor has made more than one recording of The Planets, I wonder if there are many differences in the tempos of the various movements. One is certainly extraordinary and it comes from Stokowski. In his live NBC Symphony broadcast of 1943, issued both on Cala and Pristine, and with the war raging across the world, he treats Neptune as a kind of lamentation. AA in his Gramophone review refers to the women's "grief-stricken, imploring progress" in a movement that times out at 9:52. However, when Stokowski recorded it for Capitol in 1956, he got through it in 6:33! ... The LP had a terrible review from TH at the time but the NBC is much the better performance. Both Neptunes are on YouTube so you can hear the big differences.

Here is the wartime NBC broadcast performance ...

And here is the Capitol recording ...

[MickyD]

I seem to recall an old MFP LP in my Dad's collection of Stokowski and the LA Philharmonic doing The Planets...it was the first time I'd heard the piece and it made a real impression on my 12 year old ears.

[smittims]

Yes, I agree, as I said earlier here. Sadly, it has a poor critical reputation; it's said that he tinkered with the scoring, but I can't find much difference.

It was made in stereo but released in Britain only on that mono MFP disc. The Stereo version is in the Warner Stokowski box which contains a generous selection of the Capitol stereo recordings he made in 1956/7 with Richard C Jones.

[oliver sudden]

Yes, I agree, as I said earlier here. Sadly, it has a poor critical reputation; it's said that he tinkered with the scoring, but I can't find much difference.

It was made in stereo but released in Britain only on that mono MFP disc. The Stereo version is in the Warner Stokowski box which contains a generous selection of the Capitol stereo recordings he made in 1956/7 with Richard C Jones.

I had the LP on my shelf for a while before I gave it a listen and I’m afraid I will have to be placed among the poor critics.

The only serious alteration that sprang to my ear was a tam-tam roll under the chords at the end of Mars. But there were plenty of other infelicities of various kinds. I had the distinct impression that the first trumpet didn’t bother to play the bars of repeated high Gs in the latter stages of Mars. I don’t think it will get a second hearing for quite some time what with my listening time being scarce and there being lots of potentially more interesting unheard Planetses out there. (For example the Loughran, of which I have only managed to hear four movements so far (they appeared on YouTube a few days ago), and which has just arrived in the post.)

[MickyD]

Ah well, I was only twelve when I heard it...I was just curious to know what other members made of it.

[Sir Velo]

Well Gramophone in its 2024 survey found much to admire in Stokey's recording, viz: "Stokowski’s 1956 recording of The Planets for Capitol may not qualify as a stereo demonstration disc as the sound is a bit diffuse, but Stokowski’s legerdemain is a marvel nevertheless. He tinkers with the score here and there (because of course he does), but not in a way that’s distracting. ‘Mars’ is truly ominous, and although the brass-playing isn’t always entirely secure, Stoki’s colour palette is unusually broad. Is his ‘Venus’ too beautiful? Not for me, especially as his pacing is so sensitive to the music’s ebb and flow. ‘Jupiter’ starts out a little subdued, relatively speaking, but quickly becomes more characterful, while ‘Neptune’ is simultaneously lyrical and unsettled, which is in line with the composer’s own interpretation."

[MickyD]

It was the Neptune piece that impressed me the most as a nipper, had never heard anything quite so mysterious!