BaL 11.01.25 - Holst: The Planets

[oliver sudden]

Thank you for that, Oliver, very interesting to hear the story behind the Goodman recording. Impressive that it gets to no.6 in that listing, no mean feat with all the others available.

I think it is indeed a very good recording! But clearly not as good as Goodman thought it could (should?) have been.

[Barbirollians]

One might have thought that most historically informed performance would have been that of Boult ?

[MickyD]

One might have thought that most historically informed performance would have been that of Boult ?

Or even that of Holst himself which I see is available on Naxos. Has anyone heard it?

[oliver sudden]

Or even that of Holst himself which I see is available on Naxos. Has anyone heard it?

There is an acoustic recording from 1923 which I have not heard and an electrical recording from 1926 which I have on a Naxos CD and which for my money is absolutely essential in any Planets collection numbering more than a couple of recordings. (In other words I think it’s great although it shouldn’t be anyone’s only recording.)

Boult’s recordings are certainly historically informed in a sense but the tempi differ considerably from Holst’s own, as is apparent right from the start.

[Petrushka]

There is an acoustic recording from 1923 which I have not heard and an electrical recording from 1926 which I have on a Naxos CD and which for my money is absolutely essential in any Planets collection numbering more than a couple of recordings. (In other words I think it’s great although it shouldn’t be anyone’s only recording.)

Boult’s recordings are certainly historically informed in a sense but the tempi differ considerably from Holst’s own, as is apparent right from the start.

I bought Holst's own 1926 recording with the LSO on a HMV Treasury LP in 1974 and have never replaced it with the Naxos CD. I agree that it is an essential listen and, yes, the speed of Mars will come as a surprise!

[vinteuil]

... the 1926 Holst Planets is also included in the invaluable 'Composers in Person' set -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Composers-Person-22cd-Various/dp/B001EX5CH8

[hmvman]

There is an acoustic recording from 1923 which I have not heard and an electrical recording from 1926 which I have on a Naxos CD and which for my money is absolutely essential in any Planets collection numbering more than a couple of recordings. (In other words I think it’s great although it shouldn’t be anyone’s only recording.)

I recently bought a bargain box of acoustic shellac discs and one of the gems contained therein was one record from Holst's 1923 set - Venus. I've played it a few times on my HMV cabinet gramophone and it sounds lovely to my ears. Funny enough, I have nearly always listened to The Planets as a complete work and rarely to just individual movements so listening to this one disc has been a bit of a revelation in isolating 'Venus' from its surroundings. It really is superbly-crafted music. I'd love to acquire the rest of the set of records sometime.

For a more modern recording, I was lent a copy of the Boston/Steinberg and thought it very fine.

[CallMePaul]

There is an acoustic recording from 1923 which I have not heard and an electrical recording from 1926 which I have on a Naxos CD and which for my money is absolutely essential in any Planets collection numbering more than a couple of recordings. (In other words I think it’s great although it shouldn’t be anyone’s only recording.)

Boult’s recordings are certainly historically informed in a sense but the tempi differ considerably from Holst’s own, as is apparent right from the start.

Given that historical recordings were often made to enable musically convenient side-breaks on 78s, can Holst's tempi necessarily considered his ideal?

[oliver sudden]

Given that historical recordings were often made to enable musically convenient side-breaks on 78s, can Holst's tempi necessarily considered his ideal?

I think the notion of 78 side-lengths affecting tempo has been fairly clearly debunked in the general sense. This is the first article that comes to hand addressing that topic in the specific case of Mars…

https://www.hifinews.com/content/gustav-holst-planets

…and there are other testaments to Holst’s own ‘Mars’ tempo being at about the limit of conductable crotchets.

[Petrushka]

Given that historical recordings were often made to enable musically convenient side-breaks on 78s, can Holst's tempi necessarily considered his ideal?

I can't find the reference now but I think that Fred Gaisberg, Elgar's producer at HMV, was asked this question and he said that they went to great lengths to avoid doing it and it was rarely necessary. It was probably in Jerrold Northrop Moore's Elgar on Record.

[makropulos]

Having sent in my final list of extracts on Saturday, after weeks of wading long and deep among many, many Planets, I might as well get one potential disappointment out of the way before the programme. Both Imogen Holst and Boult said that GH's own recordings were unrepresentative of what he did in live performances (and much faster). So while they are interesting documents, they're certainly not definitive – and, given the pressure of the competition, I won't be illustrating either of them. It'll come as no surprise to hear that preparing this BAL has been an enormously entertaining (if mammoth) undertaking!

[smittims]

I think it should be remembered that the tempo marking for Mars is Allegro. So I think a fast tempo is not unnatural. And I agree that, apart from a few exceptions, conductors did not speed up their beat to fit the music on a 78 side. The amount of music per side was determined beforehand between the conductor and producer, and would take into account the tempo the composer (in the case of Holst or Elgar) wanted.

More interesting to me than the tempo in Mars is that for Jupiter. The score's specified relationship between the speed of the opening and the 'big tune' later, means that unless you play the opening at almost impossible speed the 'big tune ' will sound very slow. Holst tries to do this , but the 1926 LSO strings aren't quite up to it, so, like many conductors since, he compromises later in the 'big tune'. Boult's 1946 recording is I think more satisfactory here. This is quite apart from the 'hymn-tune' associations which have led to the big tune being taken too slowly than 'jollity ' suggests.

[oliver sudden]

I’ve been a bit obsessed lately with the live NYPO/Barbirolli Planets, which of course could never be a BaL choice since it only has five of the seven! But among them is the biggest-hearted Jupiter I know, and that counts for a heck of a lot.

[makropulos]

I’ve been a bit obsessed lately with the live NYPO/Barbirolli Planets, which of course could never be a BaL choice since it only has five of the seven! But among them is the biggest-hearted Jupiter I know, and that counts for a heck of a lot.

Yes! It's a terrific performance and I just wish they'd done all of it!

[Barbirollians]

There is also the Barbirolli Society release where he similarly leaves out Saturn and Neptune . I wonder why ?