BaL 9.11.24 - Verdi: Il trovatore

[Ein Heldenleben]

The Pan Book of Opera was the foundation of my operatic life, and it's nice to hear you quoting one of its jolliest passages. Good stuff!

But leaving aside the time-worn quip about Il trovatore's allegedly 'old-fashioned' plot (by what criteria, one constantly wonders, apart from TV realism?) I'd have to take issue with the idea that the top Cs are in any sense out of place. Just as in Bellini or Donizetti - which this opera apotheosises - it is an error to conclude that because the high notes aren't in the score, Verdi didn't expect them. We've got beyond the revisionist notion that the notes in a 19th-century Italian opera score tell the whole story, and should be adhered to religiously.

That's unhistorical pedantry: there were singer conventions at play, which these composers had firmly in mind. If Verdi had written some top Cs into his score, singers would have taken that as code that they should be aiming for Top Es! The line he writes specifically invites the top C variation, and goes off like a damp squib if sung "straight" (as witness some of the recordings here, which rein in their tenors to disappointing effect at that moment.)

I think weve had this discussion before - although the plot is far fetched the musico- emotional “plot” as it were is absolutely convincing and compelling . As in life people do believable things for unbelievable reasons.

[Wolfram]

It appears that the 1977 EMI Karajan recording is not currently available - unless it is buried in one of those big boxes somewhere and doesn’t show up on searches. Despite being in better voice for Mehta in 1970, Price’s 1977 recording is streets ahead in terms of subtlety and nuance. From the sets I have at home the Leonoras that had me mesmerised were Callas, Price and, surprisingly, Gheorghiu. The old cliche that all you need for Il Trovatore is the four greatest singers in the world is only partially true, you also need a great pit conductor, and Karajan in 1955 and Pappano are just that. They both bring the score alive and give us the edge of the seat thrills and spills the old melodrama needs, whilst at the same time supporting the singers all the way. Giulini is quite pedestrian beside them. I think the absence, if it is indeed true, of the 1977 Karajan is a problem for this BaL. It was the winner, I believe, when Hilary Finch last did it.

[Master Jacques]

I think weve had this discussion before - although the plot is far fetched the musico- emotional “plot” as it were is absolutely convincing and compelling . As in life people do believable things for unbelievable reasons.

We have indeed, which is why I didn't spend much time on the non-question. Like Gutiérrez's play, Cammarano's libretto is a compelling Byronic study in romantic archetypes, and should be respected for the fine piece of work it is. You put the core of the matter admirably! And yes, even in so-called "real life" (whatever that is) people constantly do believable things for unbelievable reasons - and vice versa.

[Barbirollians]

Not sure when I acquired it but I have a later Mehta with Nucci ,Pavarotti and Verrett as Azucena. Pavarotti and Verrett are splendid but the conducting is a bit flaccid .

[vinteuil]

One fascinating alternative to all of these is the Oehms live recording from Ludwigsburg, conducted by Michael Hofstetter with an orchestra of period instruments and a cast including Simone Kermes as Leonora and Herbert Lippert as Manrico.

... thank you for that hint : I have just been listening to it and enjoyed it a lot, real excitement in this live recording

[Ein Heldenleben]

What a voice Rosalind Plowright had in that 40 year old Guilini recording .

I should say HAS …. forty years on she’s still singing . Magnificent …

[Ein Heldenleben]

So the 56 Callas / Karajan burns the house up again . Don’t suppose it will ever be bettered.

[vinteuil]

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... I found the Hofstetter so much more to my taste than any of its plump well-upholstered predecessors



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[Retune]

Roger Parker clearly reluctant to delve into the thoroughly ridiculous details of the plot ('kidnapped by gypsies', 'barbecued the wrong baby', etc.) and sticks to the essentials: "For the purposes of today it's better to be schematic ... we have the usual love triangle - there's a tenor and a baritone who hate each other ... because they're both in love with the soprano, and the soprano, of course, is in love with the tenor." Hard to argue with his shortlist - Plowright and Price especially good, but no complaints from me for giving the nod to Callas / Karajan.

[vinteuil]

the thoroughly ridiculous details of the plot ('kidnapped by gypsies', 'barbecued the wrong baby', etc.) ...

... to say nothing of historical absurdities : by the early 15th century troubadours were a thing of the distant past, and up to that time there were never any gipsies in Spain, mais passons

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[Pulcinella]

So the 56 Callas / Karajan burns the house up again . Don’t suppose it will ever be bettered.

Thanks.

Website (and OP) updated.

Recommended version:
Maria Callas (soprano), Rolando Panerei (baritone) et al., La Scala, Herbert von Karajan (cond.)
Warner 2564634094

[Barbirollians]

So the 56 Callas / Karajan burns the house up again . Don’t suppose it will ever be bettered.

The first Callas extract sent shivers down my spine all over again - she is utterly peerless in Trovatore IMO . HVK , La Scala are pretty amazing too.

[Ein Heldenleben]

The first Callas extract sent shivers down my spine all over again - she is utterly peerless in Trovatore IMO . HVK , La Scala are pretty amazing too.

Incandescent - what Karajan does with the orchestra- the way he propels things not just accompanies.

[Master Jacques]

... to say nothing of historical absurdities : by the early 15th century troubadours were a thing of the distant past, and up to that time there were never any gipsies in Spain, mais passons

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I don't know where this misinformation originates, but even if we insist on judging Il trovatore by standards of documentary realism, these two claims are baffling. Guttiérez wasn't some presentist nitwit making it up as he went along, but a well-educated, talented romantic playwright.

1. 'Trovador' in Spanish has a wider currency than the aristocratic "troubadour" (which Manrico is not, or at least if he is he doesn't realise it), but applies to any kind of peripatetic singer. I fancy the same is true of the Italian translation.

2. The Romer people (gitanos) had certainly arrived in Spain by the mid-fifteenth century, and were soon subject to special laws. They were especially familiar in Zaragoza (where the first scene is set) and had an Aragonian enclave near the city. They are familiar from many Spanish music theatre pieces (and golden age plays) set in the middle ages.

[vinteuil]

... thank you, maître Jacques, for the correction. I was misinformed.

The gitanos had certainly arrived in Zaragoza by 1447 : whether they were around at the time of the death of King Martin of Aragon in 1410 is moot.

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