BaL 5.10.24 - Brahms: Symphony 1

[cloughie]

I've got the Kempe but have somehow managed to miss the Toscanini. Eduard van Beinum with the Concertgebouw is another cracker. I've been binging on the Brahms 1 for the past fortnight or so and have barely scratched the surface yet.

Obviously a work he was fond of, having recorded on 78s in 1947, Mono LP in 1951 (Both for Decca) and Stereo for Philips in 1958.

[oliver sudden]

This from the website for the previous Brahms 1 BaL:

Recommended Recording:

Berliner Philharmoniker; Wilhelm Furtwängler (conductor)

DG 4770062 (CD or digital download)

[Nick Armstrong]

The live RFH 1989 version means even more to me (happy to learn there is a CD, my recording is an off-air cassette). Perhaps this is less related to intrinsic quality than its associations: I had just moved to London, was thrilled at the range of music available, had some disposable income at last, and was going to several concerts a week. This one was sold-out so I queued for hours for returns but sadly but didn't quite get in.

That concert was on October 6 1988 and is available on a Testament CD. I tried to book for the concert but it was sold out by the time my application was in.

Oh dear, I feel a bit guilty now

I was there (decent stalls seats too), not sure how I managed to organise that. (Found and kept the programme too, in a recent clear-out)

Like duncan, the associations (not least that it was the only time I saw Karajan) meant I was delighted to find the performance on a commercial CD - but also it was and remains a special performance.

There was an unusual and tense atmosphere that night - orchestra equipment had been delayed in transit - for a while we weren’t sure the concert was going to happen at all. In the event, it went ahead after a very delayed start, with some players in ‘mufti’ as their concert attire was still missing. In contrast to that relaxed look, I recall the Brahms performance as almost angry, as if reflecting the mood of anxiety and tension earlier….

[richardfinegold]

It's on both Amazon and Presto. If you put 'Karajan testament' in the searcboxes of either, it will come up. I've just tried it and it does.

That’s interesting because when I typed Karajan Testament in both I got nothing, same with Apple. Anyway a friend directed me to a download site for it
a follow up-when I typed’ ‘Karajan’Testament’ in the regular Presto site the disc now appears. They don’t list a streaming option which might explain why the Presto streaming service doesn’t carry it. And regarding Amazon, today it appears whereas yesterday it did not! The wonders of Digital Search Engines.

[oliver sudden]

I've just listened to Karajan's 1952 recording with the Philharmonia Orchestra and found it to be very fine indeed, sounding terrific in the Warner Official Remastered Edition issue, done an amazing 10 years ago. Is that Dennis Brain on solo horn does anyone know? Was he in the Philharmonia in 1952?

It goes to show that you can't just leave these older recordings out of consideration

There’s a fairly comprehensive Brain discography here:

https://www.hornsociety.org/home/downloads/miscellaneous-downloads/905-dennis-brain-discography/file

[oliver sudden]

Obviously a work he was fond of, having recorded on 78s in 1947, Mono LP in 1951 (Both for Decca) and Stereo for Philips in 1958.

I have hauled the box down from the shelf and jumped into the 1947 and goodness me that Allegro slaps.

I also have a live Tennstedt on the way. Let’s see what he came up with.

[Petrushka]

Oh dear, I feel a bit guilty now

I was there (decent stalls seats too), not sure how I managed to organise that. (Found and kept the programme too, in a recent clear-out)

Like duncan, the associations (not least that it was the only time I saw Karajan) meant I was delighted to find the performance on a commercial CD - but also it was and remains a special performance.

There was an unusual and tense atmosphere that night - orchestra equipment had been delayed in transit - for a while we weren’t sure the concert was going to happen at all. In the event, it went ahead after a very delayed start, with some players in ‘mufti’ as their concert attire was still missing. In contrast to that relaxed look, I recall the Brahms performance as almost angry, as if reflecting the mood of anxiety and tension earlier….

The only time I saw Karajan was at the RFH on June 19 1979 when he conducted the BPO in the Bruckner 8. I've never known a more electric atmosphere at a concert and I will never forget it.

The performance was broadcast on Capital Radio (!) on June 24 1979 and, despite searches and requests on Karajan websites and elsewhere, the only recording I've been able to find is one with a cut in the Adagio where someone obviously changed the cassette tape and which is also plagued by radio interference noises. Sad because the sound itself is actually very good.

Presumably, the original tape is gathering dust somewhere in the vaults but I still live in hope it will one day emerge and be issued on CD.

[cloughie]

I have hauled the box down from the shelf and jumped into the 1947 and goodness me that Allegro slaps.

I also have a live Tennstedt on the way. Let’s see what he came up with.

Not a big box of 78s then!

[oliver sudden]

Not a big box of 78s then!

Indeed not! A fairly big box, 44 discs from the fine folk at Decca that spin at about 500rpm when you put them on and about 200 when they stop.

[smittims]

Many thanks to oliver for the lead to that Dennis Brain discography . I cannot better the remarks on pages 4 and 5 re the often complex question 'is it actually DB on this recording?' . One can usually pick him out by hs tone, though naturally other players tried to emulate him. For instance, I've often thought it is he on the Beecham complete Schumann Manfred music , a Philips recording now on SONY , but apparently not from this list.

[Barbirollians]

Yes, they're easily confused because the dates were very close ; the Vienna was 27 January 1952.

Some of Furtwangler's recordings are difficult to date and identify. There's a 1952 Eroica with the Vienna Phil which Vox published as 'Berlin Philharmonic'. And I have a supposedly 1942 Brahms 4 which is suspiciously similar to the 1943 Berlin recording issued by Music and Arts. I'm told a lot of paper records were destroyed by fire during the allied bombing.

It was the Berlin 1952 DG recording that Ivan Hewett chose not the VPO though some reviewers prefer the VPO account .

[oliver sudden]

Many thanks to oliver for the lead to that Dennis Brain discography . I cannot better the remarks on pages 4 and 5 re the often complex question 'is it actually DB on this recording?' . One can usually pick him out by hs tone, though naturally other players tried to emulate him. For instance, I've often thought it is he on the Beecham complete Schumann Manfred music , a Philips recording now on SONY , but apparently not from this list.

“There is, then, an inescapable amount of uncertainty hovering over this entire enterprise.” Indeed there is. I had a bit of a Brain phase a couple of years back and spent a fair bit of time going back and forth between YouTube and that discography. Although I can’t claim any authority or expertise whatsoever there were certainly a few moments where my gut shook its head, so to speak.

[oliver sudden]

I shall most certainly be investigating Le Cercle de l'Harmonie on the basis of those few seconds.

Didn't really do it for me, in case anyone's wondering (unlikely, I know). Very dry acoustic and again far too stringy in the balance (violin solo again completely drowning out the horn, which I'm fairly sure is not the idea)... and the string sound isn't what you'd call opulent. No list of players and nothing about the instruments. There's a photo of the setup for the Brahms violin concerto (also in the pack but on a separate disc) where the horns (but not the trumpets) appear to be valveless. The strings (and timpanist) also all seem to be masked (April 2021 recording). And the return of the chorale at the end of the finale gets the brakes-slammed-on treatment, which is not for me in this kind of context. Norrington is still my HIPP pick by quite some margin.

[vinteuil]

I shall most certainly be investigating Le Cercle de l'Harmonie on the basis of those few seconds.

.

Didn't really do it for me, in case anyone's wondering (unlikely, I know). /.../ Norrington is still my HIPP pick by quite some margin.

... o, I was wondering! - thank you : I have saved £7.70 (plus p&p) as a result

I too remain loyal to Norrington, both LCP and the Stuttgarters
.

[Barbirollians]

I didn't get on with Norrington's Brahms 1 - I think I still have the cassette somewhere. Unlike his Symphonie Fantastique which tops all other HIPP versions I have heard by a long way - and is up there with Colin Davis, Abbado, Barbirolli , Beecham and Stokowski as one of my very favourites.