BaL 5.10.24 - Brahms: Symphony 1

[oliver sudden]

'Edge-of-seat excitement' reminds me of the surviving fourth movement from a 1945 Furtwangler performance given inthe Adriralsplatz , his last concert in Germany until May 1947. The Red Army was approaching, Monty and Ike were crossing the Rhine, so it's not surprising it was an intense occasion.

Similarly fraught must have been his last wartime concert of all, Brahms 2 in Vienna, after which he fled into Switzerland to evade impending Gestapo arrest…

[Petrushka]

Similarly fraught must have been his last wartime concert of all, Brahms 2 in Vienna, after which he fled into Switzerland to evade impending Gestapo arrest…

That concert took place on January 28 1945 so I'd be interested in knowing the date of the Brahms 1 last movement mentioned by smittims. The Brahms 2 performance from 1945 was preceded by the Franck Symphony in D Minor and both are available on CD. I'm not aware of any further concerts conducted by Furtwangler in the Third Reich after this as he had, as you say, fled to Switzerland.

For context, the Red Army liberated Auschwitz the day before the Vienna concert and the Western Allies did not cross the Rhine until March 1945.

[gurnemanz]

For many years my "go to" LP versions of Brahms Symphonies were Kurt Sanderling/Dresden Staatskapelle (1972). I think my first CD version was via a 1991 DG Twofer on their 2CD Concert Classics series. It includes the Karl Böhm/BPO 1st Symphony from 1960, which I have just listened to again with great enjoyment for the first time for a while

[smittims]

Yes, well, I wasn't there at the time, as Otto Klemperer said when Furtwangler asked him to verify that he (F) hadn't been a Nazi. The Admiralspalast (I've corrected my eariler post) concert was 23 January. According to John Ardoin (The Furtwangler record) ' It stands not only as the most exacting, extraordinary performance of a piece of symphonic music by Brahms, but one of the most thrilling orchestral recordings in existence.'

Well, if you're a Toscanini fan you can disagree with that; but for me, the most fascinating aspect of Furtwangler's interpretation is the middle section , from bar 220 (letter K in the Breitkopf score) to 300, including a massive rallentando at the end . He does this in all his recordings, though not always to the same effect. This, I think, is one of those moments that separates Furtwangler from other conductors; if you're in the mood, it can explain why some of us go on and on about this chap.
.

[Petrushka]

Yes, well, I wasn't there at the time, as Otto Klemperer said when Furtwangler asked him to verify that he (F) hadn't been a Nazi. The Admiralspalast (I've corrected my eariler post) concert was 23 January. According to John Ardoin (The Furtwangler record) ' It stands not only as the most exacting, extraordinary performance of a piece of symphonic music by Brahms, but one of the most thrilling orchestral recordings in existence.'

Thanks for clarification of the date. I couldn't find any mention of it in the several books I have of Furtwangler though that doesn't mean it's not there. Typically, I don't have the Ardoin book.

[Darloboy]

Here's a link to that previous thread:

https://www.for3.org/forums/forum/cl...o-1-in-c-minor

Surely 4 years is far too short a gap between programmes? Especially as, prior to that, the 1st symphony hadn't been covered by the programme since 1972. This is part of the reason I've lost interest in BaL.

Ivan Hewitt's other recommended recordings were Norrington and Chailly.
There have also been past BaL programmes on the complete symphonies.

In February 1980, Richard Osborner recommended Boult for the complete symphonies and then a week later he did a programme on the symphonies on single disc: Furtwängler/Berlin + Lougharn/Hallé + Boult/LPO were his recommendations for the 1st.

Then in February 1991 Alan Sanders and Stephen Johnson recommended North German RSO/Wand for a complete set, with LPO/Boult as the recommendation for the 1st. Toscanini (complete) and Klemperer (1st) were also recommended).

[CallMePaul]

On another subject - if you like HIPP, then JEG is the one to go for, as he uses natural horns. Norrington et al don’t.

I have the JEG version of all 4 symphonies and I have to admit that I much prefrer the even-numbered symphonies regardless of orchestra/ conductor. Gardner employs a surprisingly large orchestra in all the symphonies and I would be interested tio hear a smaller one, Dausgard perhaps?

[HighlandDougie]

Deathly silence all round on this. Maybe the name of today's interlocutor and supposed 'expert' put everyone off. She wasn't too "jolly hockey sticks" today but I don't think that I learned anything about the Brahms 1st that I didn't already know. Reasonable choice of illustrations from Toscanini through to today's winner - YN-S and the COE with the other two on the short shortlist being the 1977 Karajan and SCO/Mackerras. I hadn't heard the last of these before but, on the basis of what I heard, assembled the cycle of all four symphonies as used copies for under £15.

[silvestrione]

Deathly silence all round on this. Maybe the name of today's interlocutor and supposed 'expert' put everyone off. She wasn't too "jolly hockey sticks" today but I don't think that I learned anything about the Brahms 1st that I didn't already know. Reasonable choice of illustrations from Toscanini through to today's winner - YN-S and the COE with the other two on the short shortlist being the 1977 Karajan and SCO/Mackerras. I hadn't heard the last of these before but, on the basis of what I heard, assembled the cycle of all four symphonies as used copies for under £15.

People tend to do it later on i-player I think.
Yes short on insights. Did I dream it, or was not whether or not Brahms was wearing a beard at the time of composition made a key factor?

Nevertheless I suffered it for the excellent extracts. I've only recently come across that Karajan version, my go-to for years being the 60s one (and now there's the late RFH 'live'). It is fine, I agree.The extract from the finale was so involving and exciting, you just wanted it to go on! I also liked the SCO/Mackerras very much, so much character and clarity.

BUT 4 years ago the reviewer finished by saying the Furtwangler version he'd chosen was 'the best there'd ever been and ever likely to be' -- surely therefore it should have got some sort of mention?

[LMcD]

Deathly silence all round on this. Maybe the name of today's interlocutor and supposed 'expert' put everyone off. She wasn't too "jolly hockey sticks" today but I don't think that I learned anything about the Brahms 1st that I didn't already know. Reasonable choice of illustrations from Toscanini through to today's winner - YN-S and the COE with the other two on the short shortlist being the 1977 Karajan and SCO/Mackerras. I hadn't heard the last of these before but, on the basis of what I heard, assembled the cycle of all four symphonies as used copies for under £15.

Perhaps nobody else was listening!

[Lordgeous]

Perhaps nobody else was listening!

I was, but I'm so attached to my old Cantelli recording I don't think I'll ever find it surpassed. Mackerras impressive though, as always. Did we really appreciate him enough hen he was in our midst?

[Barbirollians]

By choosing YNS she clearly did as she was told for a modern version unlike Hewett . So predictable - and I am sure McGregor was thrilled .

[Pulcinella]

Deathly silence all round on this. Maybe the name of today's interlocutor and supposed 'expert' put everyone off. She wasn't too "jolly hockey sticks" today but I don't think that I learned anything about the Brahms 1st that I didn't already know. Reasonable choice of illustrations from Toscanini through to today's winner - YN-S and the COE with the other two on the short shortlist being the 1977 Karajan and SCO/Mackerras. I hadn't heard the last of these before but, on the basis of what I heard, assembled the cycle of all four symphonies as used copies for under £15.

Thanks for the summary.

The website only gives the winner, which I'll add to the original posting.

Katy's choice:
Johannes Brahms: The Symphonies
Chamber Orchestra of Europe/Yannick Nézet-Séguin
Deutsche Grammophon 4866000

I didn't listen though at least have the reason/excuse that I was at today's matinee of Alan Ayckbourn's 90th play, Show and Tell, in Scarborough.

[Barbirollians]

I have not listened live to Recird Review since it’s move to Saturday afternoon- and this evidently planned fix to expunge the 2018 BAL was never going to entice me to do so .

[Petrushka]

Thanks for the summary.

The website only gives the winner, which I'll add to the original posting.

Katy's choice:
Johannes Brahms: The Symphonies
Chamber Orchestra of Europe/Yannick Nézet-Séguin
Deutsche Grammophon 4866000.

It looks a tad suspicious to my cynical mind that a brand new version - and a complete set, too - is the 'winner' on this occasion. One wonders how much thought went into this as it's certainly a nice little earner for DG to have 'Building a Library' choice included in its marketing.

If anyone's interested, Dave Hurwitz has good things to say about the First in this set, but less good for the others. His feeling was that the orchestra need more strings.