BaL 13.07.24 - Shostakovich: Symphony 5

[Pulcinella]

I have the Barshai set of all DSCH's symphonies, also the Ancerl recording (Czech PO) of the 5th. This is my personal favourite but I only jave it on LP (Supraphon) and don't know if it is available on CD. It has always been well rated and I am surprised that it has not been mentioned earlier.

It has: by makropulos in post #7!

[gurnemanz]

As I mentioned last time we had a BaL on Shost 5 in 2013, my first ever Shostakovich recording about 50 years ago was Symph 5 with Karel Ančerl and Czech Philharmonic Orchestra on Music For Pleasure. Played it a lot and didn't upgrade till I got the Haitink complete on CD. I have since acquired a few more good ones:

Mravinksy Leningrad Philharmonic 1954
Barshai WDR Symphonieorchrester 1996
Bernstein NYP 1959
Kirill Kondrashin Moscow PO 1964
Silvestri VPO 1960.

[Goon525]

Oh dear, NOT Marina Frolova-Walker, who has written, jointly, a book on the symphony!

As Lenny has made recording(s), and Edward Seckerson is the reviewer, there is very little point in waiting for the result of this BaL - no one else stands an earthly. ES should only be used on works where no Bernstein recording exists.

[mikealdren]

Deleted

[ucanseetheend]

As Lenny has made recording(s), and Edward Seckerson is the reviewer, there is very little point in waiting for the result of this BaL - no one else stands an earthly. ES should only be used on works where no Bernstein recording exists.

If you looked at ES picks over the years while he may often praise LB recordings it's rarely his first choice .So your sarcasm doesn't fit

[oliver sudden]

I didn't know this until I recently read of it. I've always thought that the bass drum played a part in the brutal first movement march ɓut it must be the timpani that are thumping away.

Completely off-topic I’m afraid but what’s happened to the b in ‘but’?

[Pulcinella]

In his section on Shostakovich's Symphony 5, Michael Steinberg (The Symphony, 1995) has this paragraph on tempo relationships n the final movement, which I found interesting and worth sharing, even though the English is in places rather odd!

Shostakovich carefully organized his finale by means of the relationships of the tempi of its various sections. He begins with crotchet = 88, then stepping the up tempo [sic; surely stepping up the tempo?] through 104, 108, 120, 126, 132, 144, to 184. From there he goes back to slower tempi, 160, 100–108, 116, to 92. Thus at the end the pulse is just a hair faster than at the opening; however, the march with which the movement began is now written in notes twice as long as at the beginning, so that it and its accompanying drum-beats proceed at half its original tempo. It is – or should be – obvious that this relationship between the opening and closing tempi matters is a purely musical and structural issue. [sic; eh?] The tempo that Shostakovich asks for in the coda is extremely slow, and very few conductors dare it. Yevgeny Mravinsky gets it right, but he does not relate it to the opening of the movement, where he bolts away at something like one-and-a-half times the speed indicated in the score. Kiril Kondrashin and the composer's son, Maxim Shostakovich, come close, but only Kondrashin catches the proper relationship between the opening and closing tempi. Most of the big-name conductors seem to proceed entirely at random.

There is then a footnote:

Shostakovich's indication of his metronome mark fro the last pages of the Fifth Symphony is idiosyncratic; that is, instead of writing crotchet 92, which would be the usual procedure where the meter is 4/4, he writes quaver 184. Some conductors have explained their fast tempo for the coda by saying that this must be a misprint for crotchet 184. There would seem to be no justification for this assumption.

PS: I think I now understand: 'matters' is not a verb but a plural noun. Would have been better written as....between matters of the opening and closing tempi (imho).

[Pulcinella]

Aargh! This doesn't tally with the Boosey & Hawkes pocket score I have, so I might just have created an unnecessary diversion, but something must be going on.

I've found the indications Steinberg mentions (144 is actually notated as minim 72, 184 as minim 92, and 160 as minim 80) as far as crotchet 116, at figure 128, but then, after a molto riten., lasting six bars, we get crotchet 188 (at figure 131).

I clearly need to read the book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shostakovichs-Symphony-No-Oxford-Keynotes/dp/0197566332/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3SSXLZ8IR6S36&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.fVy 5g3K19yrIly7GbIGdI5n-fWutMKDrSUZNtwORG89IegL3XR8guxUorisyw33OEHQ6nAXYQE yyNrjur8ZjmgTeoRfduQ21HPG5CqvAVPk.jaxjCT6PZd3acNOD sV8pvjrujXFoYcqMBfruzUbkuHw&dib_tag=se&keywords=ma rina+frolova-walker&qid=1719050038&s=books&sprefix=Marina+frol% 2Cstripbooks%2C74&sr=1-1

This is the blurb on Amazon:

The book is devoted to Shostakovich's most controversial symphony, composed at the height of Stalin's Purges. It rescued Shostakovich from official disfavour and deeply moved audiences. The critics recognized it as a masterpiece, but they were perplexed by its ambiguities, especially at the end of the Symphony: some imagined it as the joyful final victory of socialism, while others heard the triumph instead of a sinister and oppressive force. The second interpretation was pushed into the background, but the controversy persisted, with the further complication of two very different tempo markings for the closing section, both of which seemed to be approved by the composer. The authors give an authoritative account of the tempo controversy and the effect of the different tempos on the reception of the work in the West.

PS: Book just ordered.

[richardfinegold]

Just checked Presto - Ancerl is available coupled with the first symphony. Bardhai is a bargain at just over £29 for the full srt of symphonies in the current Presto sale of Brilliant Classics.

Ancerl should be available as part of the Ancerl Gold series. It was my first, on lp in 1972.
The Haitink, Jarvi, and various Bernstein, are what I listen to but there are many worthies. Favorite concert was Masur/NYPhil on tour in Chicago

[oliver sudden]

This article is basically a BaL in print:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/shostakovich-s-fifth-symphony-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings

There are at least two Ančerl recordings out there. The one currently spinning here is a splendid live one from 1961, in a two-disc set with a 7 and 9, also live. The booklet notes say that he could only do 10 outside Czechoslovakia because the censors wouldn't let him do it at home. That would be why it's on DG I suppose. Seems odd that he would get away with that but what would I know.

I've rather fallen out of love with much of DSCH's work in the years since (aside, perhaps, from Symphs 10 and 13, and a few of the quartets) – but I suppose that's more to do with me than with Shostakovich.

Well well, 10 and 13 are the ones which have slipped down my Shostakovich rankings somewhat (apart from the first movement of 10). Again that can only be to do with me, but strange coincidence...

PS: gosh I'm glad I let it spin on after the 5 because that is a 9 for the ages.

[richardfinegold]

If you looked at ES picks over the years while he may often praise LB recordings it's rarely his first choice .So your sarcasm doesn't fit

Although picking a Bernstein recording here would be eminently justifiable

[richardfinegold]

This article is basically a BaL in print:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/shostakovich-s-fifth-symphony-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings

There are at least two Ančerl recordings out there. The one currently spinning here is a splendid live one from 1961, in a two-disc set with a 7 and 9, also live. The booklet notes say that he could only do 10 outside Czechoslovakia because the censors wouldn't let him do it at home. That would be why it's on DG I suppose. Seems odd that he would get away with that but what would I know.



Well well, 10 and 13 are the ones which have slipped down my Shostakovich rankings somewhat (apart from the first movement of 10). Again that can only be to do with me, but strange coincidence...

PS: gosh I'm glad I let it spin on after the 5 because that is a 9 for the ages.

I have no clue what live Ancerl sets you are referring to. Presto doesn’t list a live 5,7,10, just the well known studio recordings. Perhaps these are available in Germany only? Could you provide some more information, such as label, stereo/mono, orchestra?

[Pulcinella]

I have no clue what live Ancerl sets you are referring to. Presto doesn’t list a live 5,7,10, just the well known studio recordings. Perhaps these are available in Germany only? Could you provide some more information, such as label, stereo/mono, orchestra?

I can't find it to stream on Deezer either.

[ucanseetheend]

Although picking a Bernstein recording here would be eminently justifiable

Of course. A LB NY Phil live recording is awesome

[gurnemanz]

The recent Supraphon Karel Ančerl Live Recordings 15CD compendium has no Shostakovich at all: https://www.supraphon.com/album/6702...ive-recordings